The Armour Archive

So, I was in NYC and spent 2 hours at the Met drooling over their collection. Among the pieces which caught my eye was the velvet-covered corrazina.

I'm aware that the piece was assembled from parts of unrelated harnesses - but is the overall pattern valid? I'm doing research elsewhere, but I wanted to hear what you folks thought as well. (Also, if anyone has fought in one of these, tips/advice/changes, etc?)

[Picturing a corrazina quartered in blue and gold brocade with brass rivets.]


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"Or, a pall inverted surmounted by an orle Azure counterchanged"
mka: Sam Pearce

I remember someone a while back making one and posting it here. Is there a pattern out? i would like to make one with a dark wine colored velvet with silver buckles.

Pietro, the short answer is no. The pattern is not valid. As far as I know there is no historical example (surviving or depiction), of this type of defence.

If I were to do a covered breastplate I would probably make one like this <img src=http://www.hammeredsteel.com/gaa/armour/periodpics/1300s/velbrst.JPG>

Michael Shedden

http://www.barbute.com/armour

Heres My $.02
I am aware that the one in the Met. is a reconstruction based on what the reconstructor thought a period piece would look like. As for actual period examples, I have seen things similar, but nothing matching the Met. COP. That being said, I don`t discount the design as being unperiod right off as some people do. My logic being that A. existing examples of armor from that period are rare and we likely do not have access to examples of everything used. B. Recycling. Iron and steel were pretty valuable back then, and once some style of armor became obsolete it is very likely it could have been broken down and reused/remade into other things until componants eventualy wear out and become unusable and unrecognizable in there original form. C. We do have existing examples of large lung plates used in brigs. From there it doesn`t seem to be a great leap in logic that larger plates protect better and are easier to make, therby coming up with something very similar to the Met. COP. And D. I havn`t (yet) fought in one, but other people I have spoken to have and love it for its good range of motion and protective value. If we find it a competitive piece in the reenactor arms race, it is very likely that someone could have developed it in period for the same reasons. It is also (somewhat remotly) possible thats efficiency lead to its use until worn out, accounting for the lack of examples today. This was also a period where surcoats were very popular. Could we recognize one for what it is in a period drawing under a surcoat?
As far as fighting in one personaly, I expect to be able to tell you more about that soon as Mine , made by The Lost Scott just arrived as I was writing this. Looks very nice, but I`ve barely taken it out of the box, so I have to go now to check out My new toy!
I don`t know if this helps you any, but those are My thoughts on the subject
John

If you can dig up a copy of the Compleat Anachronist #69, the author there discusses several aspects of cloth-covered armor.

In AAotMK, p. 75, there is a 1376 silver altarpiece (middle picture, extreme left figure) which shows a figure in what appears to be a cloth-covered breastplate, split down the middle.

Several split breastplates have been found over the years (including 2 of the pieces that formed the one at the Met), mostly at Chalcis. These generally have the holes that would indicate the attachment of cloth over them.

So while the Met corrazzina is not necessarily an authentic pattern, the idea of a cloth-covered armor, with a globose breastplate that opens down the middle (which, to me, is the great advantage of the corrazzina) is certainly period. Unfortunately, we can only guess as to what the rest of the suit looks like.

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Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak

The idea of a set of brigandines with large lung plates also crossed my mind, but does anyone have a good pattern for one lurking around?

At the Armourer's gathering at Pennsic, Sinric was showing off one which I covet, but he hasn't produced a pattern yet.

[Make that blue and gold brocade and thousands of little brass nails!...]

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"Or, a pall inverted surmounted by an orle Azure counterchanged"
mka: Sam Pearce

Don't get me wrong. I'm by no means saying that covered breastplates, split down the middle aren't period. I just think they should be fitted with a proper fauld rather than those rectangular plates.

It annoys me that the corrazina is presented so frequently as a "typical" 14th century suit.

Michael Shedden

http://www.barbute.com/armour

I think anything represented as typical 14cent harness is wrong. Defences were changing so much durring this time I don't think you could label anything typical whether we have a surviving example or not.

As for the existance of the Corrazina... I think chances are good that something very similar existed. There is certainly a large family of armours that it belongs to and their existance is well documentable. The rest will just be argued about for some time to come.

J

Mutman give me a call on my cell phone and let me know what you think.

LS

I agree with all the above points. I know the die hard historians amongst us would like to see a surviving example before comitting to admitting that it's a valid period style of armour, but using the available evidence and extrapolating a bit are good enough for me. I like this style of armour! I've liked it since the first pic of it I saw. It looks stylish, and style was as important to these folks back then as functionality was. It just looks SO darn cool and I WANT ONE!!!

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Emm aye sea kayee why. Emm ohyou essee.

Andrew, e-mail Me your cell number and I will

If you made a split-front globose breastplate with faulds, would the faulds be split front and back also? Could it be?

Just seeking opinions.

Anything that size and shape, I think I'd make from 18g spring steel, tempered to hold its form under repeated beatings...

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"Or, a pall inverted surmounted by an orle Azure counterchanged"
mka: Sam Pearce

Michael Shedden: On that, I agree with you completely. Every piece I've seen referenced has had faulds, not those rectangular things.
A bit ago I was going to build a corrazzina to fight in, and I planned on putting faulds on it.

If that's your main objection to the Met suit, I agree with you. I am not certain what the official definitition of "Corrazina" is, but to me it's a split globose breastplate, covered with fabric and closing on the front. The rest of the details (back and side construction, skirting, etc.) are just that - details.

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Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak

What sort of back defence would have been worn with a split globose breastplate? Would there simply be a solid, one-piece backplate? Would it look more like the back defence on certain coats of plates?

Surely there would have been something more substantial than just mail...

nonsense. a real fighter never turns his back to the enemy...LOL

Seriously, I'd toss my money on the "like other cops" option. MAYBE like the churberg.

-+G

CLick here (click twice to see a mucken huhge picture)to see pics of Muttman's corizanna COP. Some of my observations on making it definetly roll all the eadges, I agree with Micheal on the tassets I think the would be better if made more like a fauld (or the tassets on Japanesse armour) although if the breast plate ride very high like a segmented on then the tassets are fine. I also covered it in suede instead of clothe for durability,painted the inside and glued the suede on befor I riveted on. I also think this armour would be best made from alluminum or stainless to avoid corosion as the covered surfaces would be hard to clean. Once I finish up a few more projects I'm going to make one for myself then I'll have to find a bascenet to add to my helmet collection.

LS



[This message has been edited by The Lost Scott (edited 10-25-2001).]

Micheal, I understand what your saying about the faulds, and I have seen the piece you posted before, both on the archive the last time you ( I think) posted it, and in other places. My main argument with it is that while it is a period piece, and documentable and all that, it is in My opinion just plain butt ugly and funny looking. I wouldn`t wear something modeled after that if you paid Me.
I do however really like the athetics of the "traditional" reenacter corrazzina. I think it is a good looking, comfortable, well moving, protective piece.
Just a matter of personal preferences, nothing personal.
I will in the next few days be posting a review on the corrazzina The Lost Scott made for Me as well as a review of the riveted mail shirt I recieved from Ancient Armory. Keep your eyes open folks. I think I have a lot of good things to say.
John

I just got my Corrazina Wednesday afternoon from Valentine Armouries. I havnt fought in it yet ,but it is very comfortable to wear and beutiful to look at.Protection should be excellent. I had him make the main lung plates in 16 gauge steel. While the vertical hip plates may or may not be historicly correct, they seem to funtion quite well. In some respects they may be better than a traditional fauld........Otto
PS Finally off the overtime job, I'll hang around a bit more now !

As to back protection, my guess would be at a solid backplate, or a number of plates covering the entire back. The corrazzina seems to be closer in desiggn to the Milanese breast-and-backs and to the 15C brigs then to a 14C CoP (and even some of those had full back protection).

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Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak