The Armour Archive

well i'm working on my second kit for SCA hw combat.

it seems that i may be able to modify some pieces of my existing kit to work with what i'm going for as well as keep down the weight

this is what i have

hpde
breast and back plate that are heat formed.
3 piece low profile spaldurs (forgive the spelling)
splinted vambrances (that are too bulky)
tassets
hideous plastic legs
a good gorget
a 3/4" hardwood shileld (opressively heavy)

we won't talk about the knees or elbows since they are an affront to nature

i have acess to 1/8 aluminium which i'm probably going to use for a shield
several square feet of 18 guage steel (what kind i don't know)
lots of leather but not armor quality
cloth

i'm going for late 13th ceentury/ early 14th century scottish

my current plans are for
a great helm (which everyone has told me that my measurements are way off and it will be insanely big)
3/4 maile sleeves attached
i'm going to keep the solid breast plate and hide it under a surcoat
solid vambrances
mitten guantlets
floating elbows (maybe) or 3 piece articulation
light leather over padding to reinforce the maille over my upper arms
tassets under cloth
reform the legs and cover them.
floating knees
greaves
i'm going to keep my gorget and cover it with cloth
i'm goign to make a partial coif (cloth top maille bottom)

any suggestions?
i'm scared of making mistakes with the elbows and the knees so i may just make them floating. i'm trying to stay away from the weight and lack of protection afforded by a maille hauberk.

Sounds like you're planning intelligently, at any rate. Are you a young man in college with limited funds and not-quite-instant access to a shop? One other thing: let's make absolutely sure you mean the early 14th century and not early 1400s -- the 15th century. That one sneaks up and nips people all the time!

a great helm (which everyone has told me that my measurements are way off and it will be insanely big)

Some later greats were quite large, but these fitted over small early bascinets. The smaller barrel helms or Topfhelms such as the Bozen Helm went over coifs at most. As you know, the flat tops and corners of barrels are at a disadvantage in SCA combat that they weren't in medieval fighting, because of the SCA's blow acknowledgement rules: they don't slip a swordblow the way the slopeheaded profile of a bascinet does. Make up a test pattern of your greathat of cereal box cardboard and tape the pieces together. Modify as you see fit.

3/4 maile sleeves attached

Strictly for pretty; not very protective, and comes with a weight penalty. Pretty IS good, however. Awful lot of fugly, ill-adapted armor out there. Since you're already considering floating elbows also, might as well go for a rerebrace while you're at it -- fewer funny-looking bloodblisters.

light leather over padding to reinforce the maille over my upper arms

I wouldn't bother with the leather overall; use it for reinforcement of critical points instead. Quilted padding will suffice, adding leather just adds weight and retains heat and sweat.

i'm going to keep the solid breast plate and hide it under a surcoat

tassets under cloth

These two together amount to a late-14th-c. covered breast and back, with a fauld. It's a good idea, especially if you hate butt-wraps, which is true of most folks who aren't totally rhino-butted.

Sounds like you're planning intelligently, at any rate. Are you a young man in college with limited funds and not-quite-instant access to a shop? One other thing: let's make absolutely sure you mean the early 14th century and not early 1400s -- the 15th century. That one sneaks up and nips people all the time!

a great helm (which everyone has told me that my measurements are way off and it will be insanely big)

Some later greats were quite large, but these fitted over small early bascinets. The smaller barrel helms or Topfhelms such as the Bozen Helm went over coifs at most. As you know, the flat tops and corners of barrels are at a disadvantage in SCA combat that they weren't in medieval fighting, because of the SCA's blow acknowledgement rules: they don't slip a swordblow the way the slopeheaded profile of a bascinet does. Make up a test pattern of your greathat of cereal box cardboard and tape the pieces together. Modify as you see fit.

3/4 maile sleeves attached

Strictly for pretty; not very protective, and comes with a weight penalty. Pretty IS good, however. Awful lot of fugly, ill-adapted armor out there. Since you're already considering floating elbows also, might as well go for a rerebrace while you're at it -- fewer funny-looking bloodblisters.

light leather over padding to reinforce the maille over my upper arms

I wouldn't bother with the leather overall; use it for reinforcement of critical points instead. Quilted padding will suffice, adding leather just adds weight and retains heat and sweat.

i'm going to keep the solid breast plate and hide it under a surcoat

tassets under cloth

These two together amount to a late-14th-c. covered breast and back, with a fauld. It's a good idea, especially if you hate butt-wraps, which is true of most folks who aren't totally rhino-butted.

As you know, the flat tops and corners of barrels are at a disadvantage in SCA combat that they weren't in medieval fighting, because of the SCA's blow acknowledgement rules: they don't slip a swordblow the way the slopeheaded profile of a bascinet does.

That's why they carry the name "Rattan Landing Pads" with them....

LordWulf wrote:

As you know, the flat tops and corners of barrels are at a disadvantage in SCA combat that they weren't in medieval fighting, because of the SCA's blow acknowledgement rules: they don't slip a swordblow the way the slopeheaded profile of a bascinet does.

That's why they carry the name "Rattan Landing Pads" with them....

one good way to avoid that is to not stare at your feet while fighting, or grow taller , seriously, I have never had a problem with getting hit on top of the helm, but that edge will catch everything thrown at it. well at least it will keep you from looking like you don't take shots.

i'm not in college at the moment i'm recovering from it. i have limited access to tools but i can probably fake what i don't have

Strictly for pretty; not very protective, and comes with a weight penalty. Pretty IS good, however. Awful lot of fugly, ill-adapted armor out there. Since you're already considering floating elbows also, might as well go for a rerebrace while you're at it -- fewer funny-looking bloodblisters.

that's why i'm reinforcing it with some padding backed with light leather or sturdy cloth (to keep the maille from chewing the padding up)

would bazubands be period for 13th 14th century scottish?

Moderator, please delete my double post this thread -- the Delete option doesn't come up when I go to Edit. Perhaps I'm timed out.

i'm thinking of doing a brigadine style 3/4 sleeve instead of maille. would this be period for 14th cen becasue i don't think it will pass for period 13th.

Coats of plates (Wisby or others) are 14th century, brigandines are 15th and more sophisticated of construction. There was a very rare full-sleeve 16th-c. brigandine. It was French, and incorporated five-piece elbows of plate. Sleeves on brigs were pointed to the top of the armhole. The sleeves may have had covered armpits, but these were not armored, just soft leather, not attached to any part of the armhole but just lying inside it.

LordWulf wrote:

As you know, the flat tops and corners of barrels are at a disadvantage in SCA combat that they weren't in medieval fighting, because of the SCA's blow acknowledgement rules: they don't slip a swordblow the way the slopeheaded profile of a bascinet does.

That's why they carry the name "Rattan Landing Pads" with them....

I've always heard them called "Aircraft Carriers", since *everything* lands on them.

Around here they call them "flight deck helms". A helm based on the Prank or Pembridge great helms would have better glancing angles but the top piece requires some serious dishing/raising. See http://www.vanishedwood.org/other/ghelmapp.htm

If you go for 13th or 14th century I'd make the greaves and vambraces out of tooled, hardened and painted leather based on examples seen in effigies. See http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=40166
and
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=29104

Bazubands seem to come from Persia and/or India and are used in Europe only by people with a cultural connection to those regions. Some folks use them as a sort of uber-vambrace if their personna would have worn vambraces but not elbow armour.

You mentioned Scotland and you seem focused on the role of a heavily armoured man-at-arms. If you could settle on a year that would allow us to give more appropriate advice. Then if you don't like the advice you can always change the year!