The Armour Archive

Hail all,

I had a question regarding the correzina harness.

I am trying to figure out which side argument I am going to land.

One school of thought I have heard is that the trapezoidal plates making up the fault do not really go with the kit and that the fault was actually made up of horizontal lames.

The other school of thought is that the display at the Met is accurate and that the fault does indeed have the plates as shown.

Anybody done any further research on this or can point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Dafydd MacNab

Though contemporary paintings of exposed corazinnas are rare, all of the ones I have seen had narrow horizontal lames attached with numerous rivets along the fauld.

I have seen/worn a piece based on the one in the Met and it didn't bend worth a damn. You sure couldn't wear it on horseback, or sit in it.

I won't say that the trapezoids have never been done, but I doubt that it was ever common. It is not a good design for combat.

Nor would I be surprised if Bashford Dean screwed up and made something that he thought was accurate, but was totaly a fabrication, as many have speculated...

Trevor wrote:I have seen/worn a piece based on the one in the Met and it didn't bend worth a damn. You sure couldn't wear it on horseback, or sit in it.

Which is why Glendour modified his pattern by cutting them in half horizontally, to make them function better.

http://talonarmory.com/products/bodyarmor/
The pictures of the completed harness shows the original plates, while the pictures of the parts shows them cut in half.

In practically every representation of this type of armour the fauld is composed of narrow hoops running horizontaly.

in fact the one at the MET is the only one I have seen that is not done this way. It has the correct profile, but the wrong execution. It is a reconstruction so... it could very well be wrong.

Representations of thus type of body armour in art from the 14th and 15th centuries are pretty clearly on the hoop fauld side of things.

Hello.

I have seen quite a few representations of this kind of armour, but neither of them *really" represent a specific type of design for the skirt section. All I could gather so far was more or less regular patterns of nail heads on the outside of a garment.
Maybe these huge pieces Bashford Dean added for a fauld to the doubtlessly accurate two piece breast defence are made up, I am quite convinced that a hoop fauld definitely is not the only way to go.

There is a fauld of hoops riveted to the inside of a fabric covering on a piece from Munich that shows the same profile...and some nails on the fabric covering seem to indicate it being a corrazzina.
But this one is a solid one piece globose breastplate.

Regards

Ivo

The only "controvery" regarding this piece in particular is found on the net. Armour scholars are unanimous in discrediting the MET corrizone - the armour curators have tried to have it taken off display a number of times, and replace it with something more accurate, only to be met with a veritable campaign of complaints by patrons who like it.

It is an undisputed fact that Bashford Dean had this assembled out of dissassociated pieces found at Chalsis, into something he thought would look nice/proper, when trying to put together a "complete" 14th century harness for his collection. Some of those plates have been cut or otherwise tampered with to 'construct' it - it is a veritable Frankenstine of an armour. The chesp[lates are the only thing that is known to go together.

Dean assembled another "early" armour, of "14th century" provenance that he was not happy with in his display, and John Woodman Higgins was so desperate for "early" pieces he (and he was a collector, rather than an authority) bought it when Dean was "willing" to sell it out of his collection, as no longer having any value to him now that he had the "corrizone". Deane knew perfectly well the arms were from a set of almain splints, the legs mid 16th century, but the bascinet was nice, although made up from a visor and bowl from two different sources.

What you are looking at is the Victorian habit of making up things they thought looked right, to look good in the Foyer of their mansion, or their grand hall.

Hello.

As to the famed "transitional suit" in the Met...As far as I know arms and legs have been associated and some of the brass trim that survived on the one piece had been reproduced to nail it to the other to make the associated pieces line up. To my knowledge in this piece the single pieces are quite matching except for the fact that this suit is composed and the construction of the "corazzina" is questionable.
Besides, I´d even call the term "corrazzina" questionable for this kind of defence.

The second suit you mentioned has been preserved for eternity in a portrait of John Woodman Higgins in his office. From head to toe it was a pignose bascinet (with otr without aventail), on the body a maille shirt, an early globose breastplate that looked like a tank top because about a hand´s breadth beneath it there hung a 16th century fauld, and arms and legs are as you described them. If i remember correctly there is even a photo of it in George Cameron Stone´s "Glossary of Arms and Armour". Now THAT was a true FrankenArmour.

Regards

Ivo

So my next question is one of use on the field.

What I have in my mind (correct me if I'm wrong) is the back fault being continuous and the front fault divided into a left and right half allowing the kit to "hinge" at the side and open down the front for the purposes of donning it.

Am I on the right track?

Thanks,

Dafydd

Dafydd

If you want to see a correzina based on an existing front (look in AAotMK) and the back (not pictured) is based off of period art (the statue of the man and horse falling in AaotMK) check out the guy on the right:

[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy/images/Pennsic04/Battle%20of%20the%2030/full/groupshot.jpg[/img]

Robert McPherson made that piece and it is the best correzina I have seen. I liked it so much that I have Cet making me a copy in spring steel, shaped perfectly to me.

Ivo wrote:Hello.

There is a fauld of hoops riveted to the inside of a fabric covering on a piece from Munich that shows the same profile...and some nails on the fabric covering seem to indicate it being a corrazzina.
But this one is a solid one piece globose breastplate.

Regards

Ivo

I'm still unclear as to the latest definition of corrazina. You seem to imply that a solid globose breastplate with hoop faulds could not be part of a corrazina. Are corrazina limited to front opening "globose" shaped assemblies?

Some of the armoured players in the Getty manuscript of Flos Duellatorem have back opening constructions of this very type. The Munich breastplate you describe might well be the surviving front of such a construction. I am inclined to describe this as a corrazina.

FWIW, I am less convinced that the term "corrazina" described a particular pattern of cloth covered globose - wasp waist defense. I am curious whether it might differentiate popular cloth covered assemblies from the latest fashion (1360-70's) of uncovered plate suspended on internal leathers.

Comments?

Hello.

Kel Rekuta wrote:I'm still unclear as to the latest definition of corrazina. You seem to imply that a solid globose breastplate with hoop faulds could not be part of a corrazina. Are corrazina limited to front opening "globose" shaped assemblies?

Some of the armoured players in the Getty manuscript of Flos Duellatorem have back opening constructions of this very type. The Munich breastplate you describe might well be the surviving front of such a construction. I am inclined to describe this as a corrazina.

FWIW, I am less convinced that the term "corrazina" described a particular pattern of cloth covered globose - wasp waist defense. I am curious whether it might differentiate popular cloth covered assemblies from the latest fashion (1360-70's) of uncovered plate suspended on internal leathers.

Comments?

I am not sure as to the definition of "corazzina" as a type of armour.

As far as I get it so far it is:

>Construction: Defence made of metal plates rivetted to the inside of a fabric or leather covering,

>Technically and Stylistically: the link between the "straight- sided barrel" profile of the coat of plates with few plates, and the "tailored to the body" looks of the brigandine with its hundreds or thousands of plates. More (and more shaped) plates than the CoP, less plates than the brigandine.

>General appearance: "Pouter Pigeon" silhouette with high and shallow waist, globose chest, and the lower hem reaching to slightly below hip level, just covering the crotch.



Ivo

My God, James, that is a fantastic photo. That is some of the best-looking SCA folks I think I've ever seen.

Steve

Steve -SoFC- wrote:My God, James, that is a fantastic photo. That is some of the best-looking SCA folks I think I've ever seen.

Steve

The three front people are Sir Rhys, Sir Gaston, and Master Galleron (sp?) who also plays with Le Belle Co. Rhys and G have mac armor on. Behind them with the maille drap and yellowish arming coat is Cet.

I took this before the battle of the 30 at Pennsic last year.

Ivo wrote:Hello.

Kel Rekuta wrote:I'm still unclear as to the latest definition of corrazina. You seem to imply that a solid globose breastplate with hoop faulds could not be part of a corrazina. Are corrazina limited to front opening "globose" shaped assemblies?

Some of the armoured players in the Getty manuscript of Flos Duellatorem have back opening constructions of this very type. The Munich breastplate you describe might well be the surviving front of such a construction. I am inclined to describe this as a corrazina.

FWIW, I am less convinced that the term "corrazina" described a particular pattern of cloth covered globose - wasp waist defense. I am curious whether it might differentiate popular cloth covered assemblies from the latest fashion (1360-70's) of uncovered plate suspended on internal leathers.

Comments?

I am not sure as to the definition of "corazzina" as a type of armour.

As far as I get it so far it is:

>Construction: Defence made of metal plates rivetted to the inside of a fabric or leather covering,

>Technically and Stylistically: the link between the "straight- sided barrel" profile of the coat of plates with few plates, and the "tailored to the body" looks of the brigandine with its hundreds or thousands of plates. More (and more shaped) plates than the CoP, less plates than the brigandine.

>General appearance: "Pouter Pigeon" silhouette with high and shallow waist, globose chest, and the lower hem reaching to slightly below hip level, just covering the crotch.



Ivo

The Term "Corrizone Brighantine" appears in late 14th century Italian documents, form descriptions indicating a defence made up of a number of plates, composite in nature with a cloth foundation and various covers. Three chorazine brighantine are found described as part of the stock held by the merchant Francesco di Marco Dantini, at Avignon in 1367.

A Solid globose breastplate with faulds, and backplate with faulds, that happened to be covered - even with the faulds articulating on the cover, would *not* be what is being described in the Italian documents, and should properly just be called a covered breastplate.

A Corrizone is in essence a early, primitive brigandine, front opening, with large breast plates, but composed otherwise of smaller plates. The general trend of Brigandine development is one of going from larger to smaller plates.

Visually, these defences first appear circa 1376-79, in the frescos of Altichiero da Zevio, in the Basilica di S. Antonio, Padua. ditto his slightly later fresco of the beheading of S. George, in the Oratorio di S. Giorgio, in Padua.

Those are the best SCA fighters on the field that I have ever seen....

I'm impressed.

Cheers,

Another nice visual source is a painting of St. Micheal at the Met. I believe that one is late 14th cent. The fauld on the St. Micheal is clearly not composed of trapazoidal plates but instead is either complete hoops or hoop segments.

Armi Difensive dal Medioevo All'eta Moderna. Boccia, L.G. Page 52.

[img]http://www.armourresearchsociety.org/brian/corazzina.crop.jpg[/img]

Ivo wrote:Hello.

As to the famed "transitional suit" in the Met...As far as I know arms and legs have been associated and some of the brass trim that survived on the one piece had been reproduced to nail it to the other to make the associated pieces line up. To my knowledge in this piece the single pieces are quite matching except for the fact that this suit is composed and the construction of the "corazzina" is questionable.
Besides, I´d even call the term "corrazzina" questionable for this kind of defence.

Hi Ivo,

I am refering to the corrazzina (and that was what Deane was trying to put together) in particular, not any other part of the harness. The corrizzina is a monstrousity, The breastplates match, and I think very few other plates may have gone to it - you must understand that hundreds of such plates were found in a jumble, in the Negroponte/Chalcis find, and clearly from more than one or two defences - there is a number of dissassociated plates at the Higgins from the find - and I mean a number, Many of the plates in Deans Frankenstine do not overlap, as they would in a proper example. The skirt is, I believe, largely composed of cut up old metal. Pieces were trimmed to fit in that, from what I have been told. Those plates were once genuine brigandines and corrizones - but were never put together like the Metropolitan Museum piece.

The bascinet, arms, and legs are good - the shoulder defences are not, to my understanding. They were 'composed'', out of other things. Surgiically altered, you must understand.

I believe it has long been the intent of the curatorial staff to take the suit down, hide the monstrosity, and display the other pieces seperately. In regards to the term corizzone for this type of torso defence, see my just prior post.

The second suit you mentioned has been preserved for eternity in a portrait of John Woodman Higgins in his office. From head to toe it was a pignose bascinet (with otr without aventail), on the body a maille shirt, an early globose breastplate that looked like a tank top because about a hand´s breadth beneath it there hung a 16th century fauld, and arms and legs are as you described them. If i remember correctly there is even a photo of it in George Cameron Stone´s "Glossary of Arms and Armour". Now THAT was a true FrankenArmour.

Yes, it has. In point of fact the portrait now hangs in the first level of the gallery, near the center of the V in the hall. The splints are in a seperate permanent display, the mail is in the reserve currently as I recall (there has been a tremendous effort being put in by the curatorial staff, and update all the displays at the Higgins, it will probably go on permanent display as a case is available, I am guessing), and the famous bascinet and aventail are out on the current touring loan exhibition, in good company with the Gwynn ex-Churburg fussknechtbrust, a nice late 15th century German sallet, a cuisse, and other interesting 15th century bits.

It's important to note that the Higgins Frankenarmour was put together by Dean, and it used to stand near to the now MET Frankenarmour in his private collection. it is in the same stylle of composition - merely composed of more obvious errors.


Regards

Ivo[/quote]

Thanks everyone for all of the info.

Now to circle back around to my original interest in the "Correzina" harness.

I was looking for something with the following criteria:

1.)Wasp waisted 14th century look.
2.)Easy to don without the aid of servants
3.)Mobile enough to be competitive in SCA combat with all the folks out there wearing hockey equipment.

If I get one of the global effects kits and then alter the fault to be made up of horizontal lames rather than the trapezoidal plates will I pass muster for 14th century or will it still look like "Frankenarmour"?

Thanks,

Dafydd

Some of the armoured players in the Getty manuscript of Flos Duellatorem have back opening constructions of this very type. The Munich breastplate you describe might well be the surviving front of such a construction. I am inclined to describe this as a corrazina.

I don't know about the Getty, but certainly there are some in the Novati MS, which is readily available online. For example, here: http://www.varmouries.com/wildrose/fiore/section6.html
These are fellows for the most part armored in early 15th century harness with visorless armets. What I'm seeing in these is a solid breast that may or may not be covered, with a hoop fauld in the front that seems to curve far enough around the sides to cover the hips, but does not extend all the way around. It's difficult to tell from the line drawings if the fauld is drawn to represent plate lames OVER a fabric foundation, or the impressions of the same plates from underneath. The artist did not add nailheads. In either case, there seems to be nothing but fabric in the center back of the fauld, meaning the buttocks were mostly unarmored. The backplate is split up the center and closes with two buckles, and the unarmored back section of the fauld likewise closes with two buckles.

So I have a globose BP I plan to cover, and I'd like to know the most authentic back style to pair it up with. These are my questions:

A) What other visual evidence exists of the type of back defense that would most likely correspond to a solid covered breast with fauld such as the Munich example? Most depictions I have seen of covered transition armors show either ones in which both the front and back are segmented (ie, a "corrazina"), or a solid breast with fauld but no back, such as that on the mounted man in the Pistoia altarpiece.

B) Corellary to A- is there any evidence to support a solid back to go with the solid front, hinged/buckled at the sides, as early as 1360-1400?

C) And what does Master Galleron's kit look like from the back?

Klaus

Daffyd the global effects kit can most certainly be used to make an accurate looking harness. You have three options with it in my opinion. I own one currently, although I have not put it together as my current corrizone kit made originally by Master Cad is still holding up well.
You can:
A. strap it together with nylon webbing, butcher the provided fauld by cutting them into smaller peices and then wear it all under a jupon in the manner of Cet in the picture James posted. Cet is wearing yeallow and in the rank behind Sir Rhys and Master Galleron.
B. Cover just the breastplate or the breast and back and make a fine covered breastplate impression. It is rather thick plastic so a thinner leather would be best to reduce the visual bulk.
C. Slice it up the front and cover it to make a corizone style harness.

I have C. which I made with a kit I bought from Cad. It is I think the most confortable hard armour I have worn in fifteen years of playing this game. I covered mine with a thin split hide, too thin as it turns out because it has worn through at the edges of the fauld pieces and now looks pretty ratty. With Gastons kit you could cut the fauld plates into smaller sections, gaining more flexibility and more closely representing the faulds seen in artwork depicting this type of harness.

In short, go for it. If you want a middle to late 14th century look to your kit in a format that is durable and reasonably low maintenance this kit is hard to beat.

Klaus the Red wrote:C) And what does Master Galleron's kit look like from the back?

Basically like the image below with faulds too:

[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy/images/cop.jpg[/img]

A gentleman named 'Fitz' used to have a website called Agincourt armoury that was part of Sosh's armoury. He put together a lovely corrizina with the hooped faulds that will get you compliments on the field. I bought one and it works great, is easy to get into/out of, and gave you the wasp-waist look.

250ish for plastic, double that for steel plates. As of a year ago he was still making them, drop him a line at:

fitz.armory@juno.com

Basically like the image below with faulds too:

Interesting- it looks like a direct descendent of the Wisby No. I, ie, a poncho with side-flaps that fastens in back, with the side-flaps buckling to the back and/or to each other. Personally, my inclination would be to do side closures so I wouldn't have to look around helplessly for someone with free hands to strap me up before every battle, as is my custom these days in my Wisby.

K

That back looks a bit like the one on the 'falling knight" misericord from Lincoln Cathedral, depicted on page 82 of AAotMK...

Right on the money, Josh, good call...

here is the Met picture
http://www.mallet-argent.com/images/st_michael_sm.jpg

Ok, I admit this type of armor is something I am not overly experienced with. I am getting more interested in brigs and COPs the more I learn, but what should the one at the Met look like? If the faulds were accurate? More to the point, does anyone have a drawing or a good pic of a corrizina's faulds? Please nobody beat on for this, but I can't really tell the difference between the Met one and the Talon Armory one....but I don't know what I'm looking for on those faulds. They both look vertically aligned to me. Any? I think it's a kick-ass looking type of armor, just like velvet covered brigs. In fact, what makes a corrizina different from a brig?

Thanks,
Christopher

Mac constructed the the back of Galleron's suite with the the Lincoln alterpiece in mind. If G' leans forward while holding a crossbow bolt to his back the resemblance is striking

Klause, if your interested I can send you pics of the back of G's suite or you can find them in the "Files" section of the dieschlatschule yahoo group.

I also have a number of conjectural back assemblies for harness of this period in addition to the one posted by James and I can send you copies if you'd like. Shoot me an e-mail and I'll get your address. I've had occaision to dig into this recently but couldn't possibly tyoe it all out here.


As to the fauld construction I'll weigh in to what others have said and recommend a fauld of horizontal lames, both because it will function well and because I have yet to see any documentation of a fauld constructed as in the Met abortion from any period

So it's kinda like the faulds on a Milanese cuirass?

Christopher

Chef, I was always amused by that particular suit when I saw the Higgins catalog, if it is the pic I'm thinking of...

Have you suggested that when they finish that they might make a couple bucks if they made a new catalog at a reasonable price?


HINT HINT HINT

RenJunkie wrote:Ok, I admit this type of armor is something I am not overly experienced with. I am getting more interested in brigs and COPs the more I learn, but what should the one at the Met look like? If the faulds were accurate? More to the point, does anyone have a drawing or a good pic of a corrizina's faulds? Please nobody beat on for this, but I can't really tell the difference between the Met one and the Talon Armory one....but I don't know what I'm looking for on those faulds. They both look vertically aligned to me. Any? I think it's a kick-ass looking type of armor, just like velvet covered brigs. In fact, what makes a corrizina different from a brig?

Thanks,
Christopher

They aren't different from a brigandine - they are an early form of brigandine. Everyone in reenactment/recreation circles uses the corrizina for shorthand, and ,leaves off the brighantine part - another reason not to favour shorthand descriptions for the lazy. I almost always tease askers who insist on using the term 'brig' by beginning to describe a ship to them.

chef de chambre wrote:

Kel Rekuta wrote:
FWIW, I am less convinced that the term "corrazina" described a particular pattern of cloth covered globose - wasp waist defense. I am curious whether it might differentiate popular cloth covered assemblies from the latest fashion (1360-70's) of uncovered plate suspended on internal leathers.

Comments?

The Term "Corrizone Brighantine" appears in late 14th century Italian documents, form descriptions indicating a defence made up of a number of plates, composite in nature with a cloth foundation and various covers. Three chorazine brighantine are found described as part of the stock held by the merchant Francesco di Marco Dantini, at Avignon in 1367.

Yes this example made me curious. The same list also notes 60 breastplates. Perhaps these might have been uncovered, backless breastplates as seen on the Pistoia altarpiece? Origio mentions a sale of fifty "cuirasses for brigands" as separate items. Is this the chorazine brighantine?

A Solid globose breastplate with faulds, and backplate with faulds, that happened to be covered - even with the faulds articulating on the cover, would *not* be what is being described in the Italian documents, and should properly just be called a covered breastplate.

A Corrizone is in essence a early, primitive brigandine, front opening, with large breast plates, but composed otherwise of smaller plates. The general trend of Brigandine development is one of going from larger to smaller plates.

Visually, these defences first appear circa 1376-79, in the frescos of Altichiero da Zevio, in the Basilica di S. Antonio, Padua. ditto his slightly later fresco of the beheading of S. George, in the Oratorio di S. Giorgio, in Padua.

Okay, thanks for adding that. So what term best describes the back opening assemblies of various sized breast plates with numerous small plates? For example, the Prague St. George and the later but similarly opened torso defenses in the Getty and Novati versions of Flos Duellatorum.

Bob, did you ever find time to write an article on this as you commented a couple years back on SFI? I'm very keen to see more info on this topic.

Klause, if your interested I can send you pics of the back of G's suite or you can find them in the "Files" section of the dieschlatschule yahoo group.

I also have a number of conjectural back assemblies for harness of this period in addition to the one posted by James and I can send you copies if you'd like. Shoot me an e-mail and I'll get your address. I've had occaision to dig into this recently but couldn't possibly tyoe it all out here.

Yes, please, send me the lot- my new e-mail is redbarbarian(at)comcast.net. Drop me a line.

In answer to the party line that the Met configuration couldn't possibly be based on anything but Dean's imagination, let me play devil's advocate and throw out this detail from the Pistoia altarpiece. This sure suggests a fauld made of large vertical sections to me:
[img]http://nickfriend.fatcow.com/pistoiadetail.jpg[/img]

And further, while we're splitting semantic hairs, what exactly is the etymology of the term 'corrazina' or 'corrizone'? Is it the Italian equivalent of the French 'cuirass'? If this is the case, 'corrizone' in Datini's inventory may translate literally as the generic 'body armor,' and 'brighantine' to 'of small plates.' If so, the persistent use of the word 'corrazina' to refer to any type of covered body armor may not be as wrong as all that. I would hesitate to refer to a large-plate or solid-breasted covered armor a 'brigandine,' though.

Klaus

Sorry, redundant post- my broadband connection chose that moment to go catatonic and I hit the button twice.