The Armour Archive

I was hoping for a yes or no, or a yes with a but, or a no with a maybe: Were COPs ever worn just over gambesons? (i.e. as opposed to gambeson, mail, COP)

TOMAR suggests that 14th century armour was typically assembled piece by piece as the fighter got more money (or killed guys that same size as him). Being in a similar predicament to the 14th century fighter w.r.t assembling gear, I have a COP and a gambeson, but the mail coat is going very, very slowly and may never be done (6ft3, ~300lbs, lots and lots of rings required).

If COPs and gambesons were worn together, does anyone have any nice piccies of such (period and new).

Cheers,
David

At least a couple of the skeletons in the Wisby mass graves had COP's but not mail hauberks. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say it was the rule, rather than the exception at Wisby, though given the circumstances of the battle, it may not be typical.

Now if you're doing a knightly impression, I'd say it wouldn't be done often, if at all, but for the grunts, I think it's fine.

What Strongbow said.

Thanks kindly for the affirmation. I don't mind grunt clothing. A few hundred years tradition in the british navy (mop and bucket division) has implanted it in the genes.

BTW, have you ever noticed how nobody ever wants to be William the dung seller? Or Mary the plague victim.

Cheers,
David

I think leaving the mail off is appropriate depending on status. The fallen at Wisby were probably not high status nobility. They were proabably soldiers. They had what they owned or were issued. There is clear evidence that at that social level shirts of mail were (at least sometimes) not worn beneath the Coat of plates. At a higher status, especially earlier when the COP was in fashion (by 1361 it was passing out of favor) it would be padding, mail COP.

Doug arent there CoPs still being seen on effigies and the like even later in the 14th cent other than Wisby? What about Kussnach CoP? as far as I remmber it being dated in the Landesmuseum in Zurich it was inthe 1370s.

Last I'd heard, the Kußnach plates date to the *first* quarter of the 14th century...

This is how I wear mine, with a chainmail "fauld" but with the COP it looks like its a vest. I may add short chainmail sleeves to complete the look later.
Cheers,
Leo

My set up is much the same as Logan's- I have the very top of a shirt and a maille fauld underneath the cop, and nobody is the wiser.