The Armour Archive

I got my medium and large oxy tank/dishing forms from POD a couple of weeks ago... This might just open up a whole new area of fun for me. Just for chuckles I hammered a helm dome panel that normally takes me about 40-50 minutes to shape and planish. In less than 5 minutes, I had a dome panel that I was proud of and no planishing needed. Good smooth finish, not lumpy at all. I was highly impressed with both the speed and quality of the job.

Clay!!! remember, when you get another small in, I got first dibs... PLEASE!!!

Having a decent dishing form might just improve both the speed and quality of my work. I think I might finally get back into doing articulations again. If I have high quality cops to work with, I should be able to make decent articulations.

On a non-related note, I notice that the inside of the tanks are somewhat rusted. I don't wish my wonderful new tools to deteriorate, so would coating the inside of the tank with some of that black anti-rust coating do the trick? or will the constant hammering be bad for the coating?

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Otto's Armoury
(home of one HIGHLY overworked armourer!) http://www.members.tripod.com/SBvast

the paint will wear off faster then a greased pig.
you best bet is to remove the rust and spray it with pam after each use and keep it in out of the weather. the out side is paintable it's also weldable to a plate so you can just bolt it to you work table.

Just a note, I didn't mean the interior of the dishing bowl, but the interior of the tank itself, the part I will generally never see or use. I'd just like to keep the items in good condition. I suspect they'll see years of use.

On a side note, I do oil the bowl after use to keep the rust down and my shop is inside my pole barn garage, so weather (other than normal moisture) is not an issue.

I painted the inside of mine with Krylon "grip/guard paint". It seems to be holding up rather well.

Yep, working into a good metal dishing form makes armouring so much easier. I do wonder why some people still insist on dishing into wood. I guess they just have more time and energy than I do.

The metal in most oxy tanks is thick enough that you can pretty much ignore any rust on the inside of your form. Your grandchildren might curse you for abusing the tool, but you won't have any troubles in your lifetime. Feel free to coat it with a anti-rust paint if it makes you feel better though.

Keeping ones' tools bright, shiny, and polished, however, I heartily encourage.


Frederich

Where do you get these things? I've called propane dealers and they say they can't legally sell me one, even after its been sliced in half. I've call metal scrap dealers and they generally don't have any. Who do I need to be harrasing for this fine instrument?

Glad to hear you like the tanks Otto And we'll be taking a trip out to the scrapyard here soon to pick up some more tanks and will be sure to get a small one for you...

Thax, I'm the person people usually harrass, except now it's actually for a good reason - we can get the oxygen tanks from a local scrapyard. If you're interested, email me and I'll put your name of people to contact when we get more tanks.

Getting these things is hit-or-miss mainly due to regulations in your state.

When I was in Wisconsin in the '80s it was impossible to get them.

In North Carolina now they seem to turn up reasonably often. Tom ended up dumping them on friends and apprentices..... We each have a pretty good collection of them.

The problem is that when you get one, you find you want more. Then you find out that the curves on the bottom are almost always different even when they are the same 'size' tank. Then you want all of them......

Find someone in a cooperative state.

Wade

Where do ya go to get those tanks cut?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Julius Caesar:
Where do ya go to get those tanks cut?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had my brother cut mine at a metal shop his buddy owns. They were cut using a big Mikita chop saw.

Remember Clay, I got dibs on a few of those oxy bottoms =) I've used some Clay-brand dishing forms (*grins*) before, and they are fantastic... can't wait to get my own!

Larien

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Julius Caesar:
Where do ya go to get those tanks cut?</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I found one at our scrapyard (small with an exceptionally deep bowl) and they cut it for me. They weren't supposed to and I didn't ask them to. I asked, "Where could I get it cut?" He said, "How high would you want it if someone could cut it?"

I told him a height and he came back a couple minutes later with it cut. I guess that was his way around it.

The 3 other tanks I have are from PoD are were well worth it.

My suggestion is to make friends with a scrapyard employee, show them pictures of what you need, leave your phone number and become a regular customer. They are more likely to help someone out if you have a good relationship with them.

bex

Stopped by my local welding supplier shop today and picked up these goodies:

http://www.geocities.com/hjalmr/latestacquisitions1.jpg

These should work out great -and the price was awesome -totally free! I can't wait to start pounding....

(^_^)
"ping....ping...ping..."

[This message has been edited by hjalmr (edited 04-23-2002).]

Word of obvious caution here: If you are going to attempt cutting of any kind of pressure vessel, be absolutely certain all traces of any flammable gas or materials are out of it - and remove the valve assembly before you start. Flush the tank out with lots of water.

You can blow yourself sky-high if you aren't careful.

Steve

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Forth Armoury
Highly authentic, affordable riveted maille.

carefull of water also if toarch cutting you can build up hydrogen pockets. your best bet is to purge the thing with co2 or some enurt gas.

not shure if chopsaw cutting will have the same effect.

I just went to Thunderbird Cylinder in Phoenix they have many old tanks for 10$. I got 2. Is the dishing tech. the same as with a stump?. Should I polish the interior of the bowl its a little pitted?

Thanks for all the great info,

Ron

Yes, taking care of the tank's dishing bowl will really help you out in the long run. The edges of those little pits can really scratch up your work, so I'd recommend taking an angle grinder with flap wheel to it and grinding out the small pits. For the larger pits, or where they have numbers stamped into the bottom of the tank, running a MIG bead into the pit and grinding it smooth will work wonders.

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If you can't be the best, be your best.
Salinas Swordsman
Darkmoor Armoury

They have a separate bin with small tanks in it at our scrap yard. They also have several large ones out in the general area. Our local welding shop said they could let me go through the trashed ones. They burn a 1" hole in them before trashing them.

Since when does boiling water give off hydrogen!? Maybe a BLVE (bioling liquid- vapor explosion). Ever shove an icecube in a glass beer bottle, screw the cap back on, then toss it in the fire...or a piece of dry ice in a two liter plastic bottle!

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Krag von Berghen
KragAxe Armoury

Member's Pics

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Krag:
<B>

Since when does boiling water give off hydrogen!? Maybe a BLVE (bioling liquid- vapor explosion). Ever shove an icecube in a glass beer bottle, screw the cap back on, then toss it in the fire...or a piece of dry ice in a two liter plastic bottle!
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A BLEVE (Boiling Liquid / Expanding Vapor Explosion) is when you have a FLAMMABLE liquid like propane coming out of a ruptured container make a big vapor cloud mixed with air and then the cloud finds an ignition source. BOOM!! That is what took out the Phillips Chemical Site in Houston in 1989, except it was butylene.

Definitely, be certain that there is NO pressure before cutting and some method of purge (a water wash is OK) is used before cutting any container. Oxygen will not burn, but could cause your torch to get super hot.

Regards,
Jean Richard
(a chemical engineer in real life)

I was able to find my tank at a local welding shop and once the valve was taken off, they were more than happy to get rid of it. Apparently they have to pay someone to pickup and destroy the tanks.

I actually welded a square plate to the bottom of my dish. The plate was a little larger then the tank bottom, then I drilled corner holes into the plate so I could either mount or clamp it to the bench.

No chance in heck that this one's rusting on the inside

Sigeric

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Krag:
<B>...or a piece of dry ice in a two liter plastic bottle!

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course I would be careful with this one. As a nearly innocent bystander my hand was torn open and my thumb broken in two places by one of these.

Magnus

What do you to deaden the sound? Or secure it to something to dish on?

Fill them with sand and weld a plate on the bottom if you want them the height to sit on top of a bench.

Bjorn

>>
A BLEVE (Boiling Liquid / Expanding Vapor Explosion) is when you have a FLAMMABLE liquid like propane coming out of a ruptured container make a big vapor cloud mixed with air and then the cloud finds an ignition source. BOOM!!
>>

Been quite a few years since I had any of this, but they always used the boiler explosions and other pressure vessels as examples for us and made the point that it didn't have to be flammable to cause a BLEVE.
I guess classroom and "real world" aren't always in agreement.

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Krag von Berghen
KragAxe Armoury

Member's Pics

Where can I get a oxygen tank. I live in austin Tx. And all of the local metal yards and welding shops tell me basically the same thing. That they can't sell these things off because of some law that says they have to account for all of them and have them properly destroyed. If someone can get me one from somewhere. Or tell me where to go. It would be appriciated.

Stephen

Did you tell them that you really only want the bottom for armoring? You may be able to get one of the metal shops to just cut off a bottom or two for you and they could use the rest of the tank as the "accounted for portion. Just a thought.

You could also try a welding shop. They may have an old one tank laying around and I doubt they have to account for them.

(^_^)

Stephan,

My dad and I will be going out to get some oxygen tanks in a couple weeks and will be reselling the bottoms. We can get a few different sizes and the prices range from $15 to $25 plus shipping. If you like, I will get in touch with you when we get the tank bottoms ready.



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If you can't be the best, be your best.
Salinas Swordsman
Darkmoor Armoury

I'm in Va. I'm going this weekend to basically pick some up for free... I'll see how many I can fit in the back of the van, but odds are I'll only be able to get a personal stash (they said they had "a couple").

I'm trying to develop a relationship with these people, though: I already get my gas from them, and I'm gonna pick up some sticks too... in any case, I'm gonna ask if they're open to the idea of getting rid of more this way.

HELMUT

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by justmagnus:
<B> Of course I would be careful with this one. As a nearly innocent bystander my hand was torn open and my thumb broken in two places by one of these.

Magnus

</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool, you'll have to show me the scars the next time I'm over by Corydon's!

-Randall

as a beginner in armour-making,does I will really see a difference from wood dishing stump?

you guy seem to really like this for dishing but i doubt it is needed for me,so if u can help me...

I just started armouring after a 12 yr break and always used a stump or brass pipe. I just got my tank bottoms done and for me they do make things much quicker with less hammer marks to take out.

Guillaume2... if you're only doing "one time" type armour for yourself, just use the stump... but, if you are going to continue doing armour, a good dishing form (or set of them) is a definite "must" on your list. With a dishing form, shaping is quicker and more uniform. And, the oxy tanks offered by POD are inexpensive... well worth the money.

Thank you everyone, I did send a e-mail direct to darkmoor armories. I'm also trying to see if there are any other wierd local ordinances that I haven't ran into yet. This city is full of them.After all the live music capital of the world now has a sound ordinance that basically stops all outdoor concerts by 10 pm. So Who really knows what else is out there.