The Armour Archive

Ok this weekend I tried to roll a round edge and came with results ranging from pathetic to really bad.

How is that you roll a round edge? I know I need a round chisel, but what else?

Any advice on how to go about it? I’ve read most if not all of the recent posts on this, but still can’t seem to figure out how to round edge.

There's this link:

http://www.tournamentproductions.org/documents/edge.html


I can't do it right yet. All I end up doing it just folding it over and trying to clean it up a bit. I need more practice I guess.

I have read in several past threads that the full armour is produced with extra material left for rolls.

Once the armour is assembled (bolts, not rivets), all of the edges are trimmed to match. Then, the edges which require aggressive, or at least difficult, rolling are annealed. Then the rolls are formed.

Idëval

What the article doesn’t address is how to do a roll on a curved edge. When I start the curve with a 1/4in chisel it comes out like crap. Anything larger and it’s not round.

If it was just a small round corner I think I could pull it off. But this is a large brim for a kettle helm.

Shape the blunt chisel to conform the curvature on the brim. Make sure there are no sharp edges on the chisel.

Take your time, do everything in many passes with small blows.

I made a set of forks to do the first few bending operations: just a sturdy piece of metal with a slit cut at the right depth and width, and somewhat smoothed edges. It still leaves some marks, but is quick and accurate.

Arland, the fact is, it requires a zillion tons of elbow grease, because you are shrinking the metal- making it thicker. That is a SOB!

The metal in question is dead soft 18ga aluminum.

Ralph, I’m going to try the metal fork thing. That sounds like the best way or at least the easiest way.

The chisel, do you mean shape it as a round chisel like a coin edge? Or a round chisel like a maille ring?

I agree with the fork. I use a cresent wrench at times.It does leave a lot of little marks if you don't round the edges.

Some folks roll the metal over a piece of wire - maybe that would help?. I understand this is a period technique as well. I don't know if it will help for your round edge though.

Steve

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Forth Armoury
Highly authentic, affordable riveted maille.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The chisel, do you mean shape it as a round chisel like a coin edge? Or a round chisel like a maille ring?</font>

Coin edge. What works for me is a 1 inch wide chisel, radius of curvature for the "sharp" end is about 1 to 2 mm. The edge that was originally straight I ground down to about 5 cm (2 inch) radius, with a gentle rounding at the edges.

These chisels are nothing special, I regrind them quite often to fit the work at that time.

The whole idea is to have a support that is about the width of your hammer, on as large an area as possible for the finished shape, without any sharp edges.

Except for unusually shaped rolls, I find that chisels are generally pretty unhelpful to me. Well, let me qualify that-i think an upside down brick chisel (the 3 or 4" wide splitting kind) makes an excellent beginning stake for edge rolling. Use the inverted chisel edge like an acute anvil edge and turn the metal out to 90 degrees all the way around. Use a hammer whose face somewhat matches the curve you're trying to get.

Once the metal is turned out, tap it gently over a few more degrees. Now, clean it up some and sand the area of the piece that the roll will lie against.

Move away from the chisel-it's work is done-and back up the piece on the anvil face, horn, or whatever shape will support the back of the piece. Now be very gentle, and tap JUST THE EDGE of the roll to fold it down until it meets the parent metal. i find that a square-faced hammer is generally best for this step. You want to stay away from the part of the roll that will remain hollow. You're sort of making a metal "surfer's tube" wave. If you're gentle and reasonably accurate with your hammer, the roll will require very little additional cleanup.

There is a tendency for the piece to uncurl some (if it is curved to begin with) while you're doing the roll, so correct for this occasionally with a soft hammer (dead-blow or rawhide). Also, if you want a very round roll, you can turn the very tip edge of the metal down some while it is at 90 degrees. Basically, you curl it a little more before you close it up.

I can see it in my head-I hope I haven't butchered the explanation too much.

[This message has been edited by CLANG (edited 06-12-2002).]

My apprentice and I were having one heck of a time with this too. What we ended up doing, and I have no clue as to what you're talking about with the chisel, is using our anvil and a bit of wire. Since you're not talking about rolling a straight edge, I won't go into that.

For the curved rolls, we draw the inner line of where we want the curve on the outside of the metal. We then place it on the very end of the anvil so the excess steel, what will soon become the roll, is hanging over the edge of the horn. Then it's a lot of tapping a bend in the shape we want the roll to go. Once it's at a 90 degree or steeper angle, we flip the piece over and put some 12 ga. wire along the crease we just made, and start curving the metal -very slowly and evenly- around the wire.

Now, unless you have a really tiny hammer or are an expert at hitting EXACTLY where you're aiming, you're not going to get a perfect roll just from this. What we do is, once the wire is nice and secure and we can't get the metal to roll any more, we flip it back over and place the hard edge of our roll against the side of the anvil, tapping lightly along the outside of the metal to force that last bit of steel into a proper, circular shape. This is, of course, very tedious work when dealing with a curved roll, but, in the end, very effective.

I hope this has helped. If anyone has other ideas of how to do this, or can explain the whole chisel thing, I'd love to hear them.



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Asher der Jager
Owner, Asher's Armory

...now, does anyone have a procedure for forming a triangular fold? I'm talking about the type seen at the neck and arms of some gothic breastplates.

Again, thanks for the help on this.

I’ll go out and look for a big chisel when I get a chance. I need to try using the wire, too.

Arland

Triangular rolls are formed similarily to round, but you wind up doing some grinding to get the sharp lines.

I'm told that there is not much evidence for wire rolled edges in period. Mostly, it come about when tinsmiths are reinforcing light weight tin pieces in Victorian times. So, if there is only one or two helmets with wire-rolled edges, are they period or Victorian repros?...

It might not be authentic, but the wire is one of the most helpful techniques for rolling that I've employed.

Basically, the roll is left about an 1/8 of an inch from completion - then, I slip some 12 guage wire into the roll and tap the roll tight onto the wire. I also maintain direction as I close the roll, and I tap slowly.

Occasionally when closing the roll around the wire, the hammer will slip off the roll edge and strike the main plate surface - I use a piece of metal to keep the surface from marring, and find it to be quite effective.

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Idëval
The Huntsman of
I-Nossë Lúmëvanwa
My mind opens wide when I roar

Period as in a 12-16 mild steel center seam welded piece of armor? Or period as in stainless steel? Or maybe a 18ga aluminum kettle helm? LOL what ever makes it look better.

I use a small wooden mallet when doing a roll. I found out that it helps a lot in getting a smooth roll going. Basically I start by forming a 90-degree edge using a piece of hardwood and a rubber mallet. Then I switch to the wooden mallet. I use what I call a “pulling hammering “ technique. I purposefully hammer the wooden mallet head into the edge and I pull at the same time. The wood “grabsâ€