The Armour Archive

I need an answer to the following:

if I glue two pieces of thin-to-moderate-thickness leather (NOT 12 OZ.) together with hide glue, will that glue dry as a rigid shell, or will it dry in such a way that a degree of the flexibility of the leather is preserved?

Thanks...

Very rigid, and brittle, too. If you let a bit drip down a little, and it dried that way, you could practically flick the drop off with your finger and send it across the room.

It's great stuff for wood, but keep it away from leather. If you want a piece to remain flexible, then find a rubber based adhesive. Barge is the best readily available glue, but I prefer to use Master Cement when I'm doing shoes. The real advantage of Master is that it gets tacky in about 3 minutes, as opposed to 45+ for Barge.

Problem is, the chronicle I'm playing with describes the guys in question smearing some kind of glue onto leather... trying tofigure out what such a period glue would be...

thanks, tho. That's at least one possibility out of the way.

I can't help you with the hide glue question, but here's a couple of things that work for me.

There a product called "Tear-mender" which works very well and it's only about $4 bucks a bottle. I found out about it from a local cobbler shop that uses it to repair leather jackets, shoes, etc... It is made to repair things like canvas, but it works great on leather. The other nice thing is that it is flexable and non-toxic. Any hardware store should carry this stuff.

Something else that work well is "Barge" cement. It's made for leather and can be found at some hobbie stores, cobbler shops or leather companies.

If you are using a medieval reference, they are probably talking about a glue made from dried rabbit skin. Modern hide glue that comes from a bottle is not going to behave in the same way.
You can get dried hide glue from www.sinopia.com

-Vitus

"Problem is, the chronicle I'm playing with describes the guys in question smearing some kind of glue onto leather..."

what exactly are the guys in question smearing glue onto leather trying to accomplish?

Oh, and rabbit glue is a hide glue.

gluing several layers together into a leather armour of sorts... and the part that gets me, putting on more glue and another layer of leather whenever the outside layer gets damaged.

Which tells me:

1. Thin pieces of leather.
2. Not boiled.
3. The armour is expected to be damaged, but not compromised, by incoming blows.

The confusing part, and I'm hunting down the reference, is that he uses a word indicating a "jacket" of some kind, rather than using an armour term. So I've slowly leaned towards a buff-coatish garment, but glued... and the glue option is something that makes more sense in camp than pitch or other smeary-stuff that can be spread and used for glue, since holding it over a woodfire to help it dry quicker would also help to waterproof it because of the smoke.

EDIT: but I expect this stuff will be mid-line rigid. Not cuirboili stiff, but not superpliable. Which makes figuring out the sleeves a nightmare (since these guys were horse archers, and they require big ranges of motion in the arms).

[This message has been edited by Russ Mitchell (edited 06-13-2002).]

Hide glue should only be used with rigid materials, in my experience it is very strong but rather brittle. Could it be fish bladder glue?, I've no experience but have heard it is weaker but much more flexible.


Alail/Scott

OK, first off, the original leather jacket/armor would have been stitched together like other all-leather products of the time. Now, when the coat when damaged would have a slash partway through or hole poked in it. To maintain the integrity of the leather, you get another piece of leather, heat up some hide glue, apply the glue to the outside edges of the cut/hole, then put a leather patch on it to cover the hole. I have had one of my leather coats fixed this way, and it is almost as good as new. The slit in the leather may have also been filled with fish glue (which is flexible but if wet doesn't stay stuck) for flexibility and the hide glue and patch to hold the fish glue in. Another possibilty is brewer's pitch in place of the fish glue.

As to holding it over the fire, hide glue must be heated to about 150 or so to make it liquid, as it cools it hardens. It may be held over the fire to get cut patches off, and to keep the glue flexible until the new
patches were in the correct position. Hide
glue sets in minutes and is strong as hell.
I even have a recipe here somewhere for making water resistant hide glue. So long as
the cuts weren't huge (at which point your armor is the least of your worries) the coat would retain a good portion of its flexibility.

I'll try to look in, though I'll be out of the country for a couple days.

Well, I have never used bottled hide glue, but I have put a backing on a bow with the granulated hide glue. And that stuff has to take a certain amount of flex fairly often. It does it, too.

On its own, it may be too brittle, but I suspect that the flexibility of the materials to which it is bonded will keep it from giving up. I suppose the best thing to do would be to try it. Honestly.

-Patrick

Thanks for all the responses.

They're... a little further over the map than I expected, but definitely close enough to what I thought that I can move to prototyping stage...

Have a good weekend.

Russ,

Hide glue is used to attach sinew backing to horse bows. It will be stiff, yet have some flex to it if enough pressure is applied. It is water and heat soluble even when totally cured. Mixing fish bladder glue with hide glue provides a longer time before the glue sets. Either is very strong.