I love Dark Victory! Really!

white mountain armoury · Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:46 pm

Its always disapointing that shit storms like this tired subject draw so many posts when genuine posts on technique, research and construction hardly recieve a dozen posts.
What a waste

Dark Victory Armory · Post by **Dark Victory Armory** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:58 pm

I'm mostly behind the camera and haven't had a chance/made the chance to get into combat in hard suit in 4-5 years but here's a picture. Legs - not pictured are stainless and are old as the hills (built in 83 by Ron) but still clunking along. Body is a churbourg kit from Ice Falcon, alum elbows from... I forget, leather vams, Stainless pauldrons beaten flat by original design and subsequent overuse, Wooden heater with canvas sheathing displaying my arms. Hat, also not pictured is a bar faced bascinet, but at demos I often wear a chapel de fer or lovely spangen along with full chain hauberk if I'm not actively whacking someone.

I may put the plastic on if I take up fighting again, as I think that test driving it some more is a good idea to see what improvements I can make given improvements in my understanding. Naturally there will be a line of eager combatants who wish to punish me for my sins. Take a number!

Hey Adam, Do you think that your simple wingless elbows, knees would make a nice form for making a hidden poly version? Also the simple shoulders.

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:42 pm

Dietrick,

I think I have a suggestion for your recently acquired skills in dish- shaping.
In the Mocow Kremlin Armoury there are a few armour bits that are made in Chahar- Aina fashion. Imagine quadrangular plates for the chest and back and rectangular ones for the sides. The chest and back plates have their corners snipped off, thus are more octogonal. In the center of each off these octogons are dished- out bumps, about 15 centimetres in diameter.

Sorry, I am a metric guy, but 15 : 2.54 should give you an idea in inches (roughly).

Regards

Ivo

P.S.: Sory, but no, I havenÃ‚Â´t got a working scanner

Nikos · Post by **Nikos** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:47 pm

Hey Adam, Do you think that your simple wingless elbows, knees would make a nice form for making a hidden poly version? Also the simple shoulders.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I find this comment in poor taste, and indicative of poor business ethics. Are you really proposing to purchase the hard work and creation of another armourer, and use them to create plastic copies for your own personal financial benefit? Did you plan to offer any compensation to this person, or were you planning to just purchase 1 set from him just so you could rip off his design?

And please don't use the tired old line about wanting this thread to stop so you can get back to your shop and work. If you wanted to work in your shop, you would. If you wanted to improve your product, you would. If you wanted to keep this thread in the limelight for whatever reason, you would.

Dark Victory Armory · Post by **Dark Victory Armory** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:37 am

1 - I'm not a metalworker.
2 - I've been told that the shapes that I make can be aren't armor unless they are the right shape.
3 - I would like them to be the right shape, or at least right enough so that more people see them as an acceptable attempt.
4 - I would probably make as much selling the orignal set of unmolded parts as I'd potentially make by selling a molded version.
5 - Adam is talented and his work is difficult to gainsay.
6 - Do you REALLY want to see hundreds of copies of my attempt at a cop?
7 - Most if not all armoring work is derivative of work that has come before. Orignial patterns get scorned as "not armor"
8 - I was responding to a question about what I wear, the request to Adam was an afterthought.
9 - I have spoken with him and continue to be interested in licensing a basic helm pattern for production in India. When the forge beats him down it would be nice to still make some money from the avocation.
10 - You try chewing on 10 attack messages a day in multiple threads while giving them some though before replying and see how much of your time it takes up. More than time it does wear a person down, in a "kick like a mule" way.

Understand?

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:03 pm

Amen, White Mountain Armoury.

Christopher

DAVID01 · Post by **DAVID01** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:58 pm

Brennus,
Any word on my armour? Have you recieved my payment yet?

Thanks, David

Dark Victory Armory · Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:33 pm

Give him some time man, metal takes time.

(and why did you have to stir up this thread again!) :roll:

DAVID01 · Post by **DAVID01** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:52 pm

Dark Victory Armory wrote:Give him some time man, metal takes time.

(and why did you have to stir up this thread again!)

EDITED

I have edited this as it was a little harsh. I was in no way trying to stir this thread up again. I simply went to reread what Brennus had written about the armour he made for me, and was wondering if the payment had made it to him yet. I posted to this... like I said, without thinking about what was previously written. I did loose my temper as DV has stated, it is just that when you post using "little rolling eye guy". It seemed you were rolling you eyes at me and I had in no way ment to bring you into this thread again. Sorry about being so rough though.

Mike F · Post by **Mike F** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:49 am

If he's like me, he gets an e-mail whenever someone responds to a thread he posted in.

Dark Victory Armory · Post by **Dark Victory Armory** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:38 am

It is just as Mike has said. Scroll to the bottom left of the page and notice the Watch this topic for replies line? If you click that or check the "Notify me when a reply is posted" when making a posting you get an email from AArchive with a link to the forum topic.

In answer to your other question about "GO BACK TO WORK" I have been working on the new forming methods. Last week I developed a means to safely and consistently heat poly to 265 degrees F (possibly more) without using an oven. I also shipped out one of my sample parts for a fighter to play with and beat up which will give me feedback on durability and design changes that he might suggest. Today, since my shop was flooded out I dragged home a 2 ton arbor press which will hopefully do the trick for creating the dished style parts.

Hope you get that armor ASAP.

carlyle · Post by **carlyle** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:58 am

Not about DVA, but the following caught my attention:

CBC wrote:To answer your question, laced articulation *is* ineffective, it is little better than pop riviting with a half decent burr.

I've been fighting in two sets of 14th C. steel arms from Cadwallon for over fifteen years, and guess what? They are articulated on points between the rerebrace and elbow cop, and the elbow cop and vambrace.

I use latigo lace for the points. The entire, assembled harness is pointed through the gambeson at the top of the shoulder (the spaulder, lames, and rerebrace are all integral).

The laces do break regularly (every few months), but they are easy to replace. If I maintained/replaced the floating grommets in the lacing holes, the laces would probably last longer.

Anyway, I just thought the datapoint would provide an interesting counterpoint to some of the opinions expressed earlier.

With regards... AoC

Dark Victory Armory · Post by **Dark Victory Armory** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:02 am

Ivo wrote:In the Mocow Kremlin Armoury there are a few armour bits that are made in Chahar- Aina fashion. Imagine quadrangular plates for the chest and back and rectangular ones for the sides. The chest and back plates have their corners snipped off, thus are more octogonal. In the center of each off these octogons are dished- out bumps, about 15 centimetres in diameter.

Ok, found a picture. What are those bumps for again?

Doug Confere · Post by **Doug Confere** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:08 am

DAVID01 wrote:
Dark Victory Armory wrote:Give him some time man, metal takes time.

(and why did you have to stir up this thread again!)

Why don't you go to work? , I mean REALY why did YOU post here, if ANYONE stirs this ember back into a fire it'll be YOU. I posted here because this is where I started buying from him. Do you just lurk waiting to see something come up about you? Your starting to show me why these guys were attacking you. I'm beginning to get a bit embaressed about standing FOR you. GO BACK TO WORK if you have such a full book. Besides Brennus told me it was ready a while back so he did it in VERY good time.

What the fuck, man?

You're a regular Alucard the Druid.

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:19 am

Doug Confere wrote:
DAVID01 wrote:
Dark Victory Armory wrote:Give him some time man, metal takes time.

(and why did you have to stir up this thread again!)

Why don't you go to work? , I mean REALY why did YOU post here, if ANYONE stirs this ember back into a fire it'll be YOU. I posted here because this is where I started buying from him. Do you just lurk waiting to see something come up about you? Your starting to show me why these guys were attacking you. I'm beginning to get a bit embaressed about standing FOR you. GO BACK TO WORK if you have such a full book. Besides Brennus told me it was ready a while back so he did it in VERY good time.

What the fuck, man?

You're a regular Alucard the Druid.

Stay out of it please Douglas.
Do you personally know Dave?
No?
Thought not, so kindly shut up.

Broadway · Post by **Broadway** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:16 am

How bout somebody locking this thread too?

DAVID01 · Post by **DAVID01** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:23 am

I am VERY sorry for posting on this thread, I was trying to get in touch with Brennus and really did't THINK before posting to this one. I should have PM'd him and just wasn't thinking... Oh and DV, I know about the thing at the bottom of the page but if it takes you from your work then just take it off, is it really worth watching. Again I AM sorry for "drudging this back up" JT as Matt said "please lock this" :oops:

Mike Garrett (Orc) · Post by **Mike Garrett (Orc)** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:36 am

Dante della Luna wrote:How bout somebody locking this thread too?

Probably a good idea

Ceddie · Post by **Ceddie** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:15 am

AoC,
Yep, that is about the same set up I use but with nylon cord. Very nice pic, thanks.

Dark Victory Armory · Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:22 am

DAVID01 wrote:I am VERY sorry for posting on this thread, I was trying to get in touch with Brennus and really did't THINK before posting to this one. I should have PM'd him and just wasn't thinking... Oh and DV, I know about the thing at the bottom of the page but if it takes you from your work then just take it off, is it really worth watching. Again I AM sorry for "drudging this back up" JT as Matt said "please lock this"

Not a huge deal, David. Don't sweat it. A few short forum postings I can handle but long condemnations that need careful though out answers are take much more time. You might want to take a few breaths before posting though. You've got a wicked temper. No offense intended

.

Agnarr · Post by **Agnarr** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:36 am

Dark Victory Armory wrote:It is just as Mike has said. Scroll to the bottom left of the page and notice the Watch this topic for replies line? If you click that or check the "Notify me when a reply is posted" when making a posting you get an email from AArchive with a link to the forum topic.

In answer to your other question about "GO BACK TO WORK" I have been working on the new forming methods. Last week I developed a means to safely and consistently heat poly to 265 degrees F (possibly more) without using an oven. I also shipped out one of my sample parts for a fighter to play with and beat up which will give me feedback on durability and design changes that he might suggest. Today, since my shop was flooded out I dragged home a 2 ton arbor press which will hopefully do the trick for creating the dished style parts.

Hope you get that armor ASAP.

Keep up the good work!

Mike F · Post by **Mike F** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:43 pm

Carlyle: Cad's an artist, no doubt. I have arms based off the floating point system (Cad helped me make them) but with the lace I've tried to use it lasted less than a few minutes. Probably the lace's fault. Okay, absolutely the lace's fault.

I don't use them for just that reason. I made myself some articulated pieces.

You have, however, shown that I was too hasty in my statement. I think the laced articulation is more a byproduct of non-dished components and sloppy tolerances (no offense). A dished cop with a vambrace that fits into it is quite safe, even articulated on laces. Less so than riveted, but still safe enough.

DVA: I look forward to seeing your results. Hope you didn't lose anything in the shop.

Ivo · Post by **Ivo** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:37 pm

Dieterick,

the bumps may just be there for decoration? Or to further protect the sternum? Anyway, they look better than an absolutely plain design, and I thought you might use your recently acquired heat- dishing techniques to make something like this?

Mike,
as to your aming points- use braided (there was some period text comparing the points to whipcord) natural fibres, and treat them with beeswax or pitch ("cordwainerÃ‚Â´s coode", if memory serves) in order to reduce friction and thus fraying.
Apart from that, when going to tournament or battle, people kept spare points handy- by the dozens, if I remember correctly (details should be in Ffoulkes, "The Armourer and his Craft").

Regards

Ivo

Dark Victory Armory · Post by **Dark Victory Armory** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:29 am

Mike F wrote:You have, however, shown that I was too hasty in my statement. I think the laced articulation is more a byproduct of non-dished components and sloppy tolerances (no offense). A dished cop with a vambrace that fits into it is quite safe, even articulated on laces. Less so than riveted, but still safe enough.

DVA: I look forward to seeing your results. Hope you didn't lose anything in the shop.

I hadn't considered the possibility of conventional articulating poly parts before. When I get more experience in making the parts I might switch over to that technique if I can find a way to make it work better. What is considered sloppy tolerances in steel is considered loose tolerances in poly. A more flexible material allows for that, and no offense taken.

The shop was flooded ala 3" pool of water on the floor rather than NOLA/Katrina depth. Only thing I lost was some shop time as it didn't seem wise to operate power tools while standing in puddles.

IVO - Sternum is a bit higher so I'm betting it's indeed decoration. I'll see what works, although given the direction of hidden armor I'm not sure that customers are going to be eager for a little dished mound poking out from their navel (or thereabouts)

. Still, thanks for the suggestion.