The Armour Archive

Posted: **Sat Jul 20, 2002 5:37 am**

I keep seeing references to Churburg #13 and 14 in discussion regarding transitional period breastplates, but i don't think i've ever seen a picture of #14 so im not sure what the difference between the two is. Does anyone know if their is someplace online that has both breastplates shown side by side for comparison, or even a site that has #14 shown so i can get an idea of what it's supposed to look like?
Im assuming that #13 is the segmented breastplate with 7 segments that doesnt fully cover the back and has the over the shoulders and across the back strapping, since thats the one i seem to see all the time. Please correct me if my assumption is wrong.

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Otto von Aachen
Kingdom of the Outlands, Canton of Hawks Hollow

Posted: **Sat Jul 20, 2002 10:29 am**

Here try this link. There are a lot of photos here. Remember the chuburg 14 is 9 peice harness and the 13 is on solid breast plate.

from Knoch

Posted: **Sat Jul 20, 2002 11:06 am**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by knoch:
Here try this link. There are a lot of photos here. Remember the chuburg 14 is 9 peice harness and the 13 is on solid breast plate.

from Knoch<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm certain you just mistyped, but the #13 is the sectioned breastplate and the #14 is the solid one.

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

Posted: **Sat Jul 20, 2002 12:08 pm**

Here are some scans of #14 and #13

Churburg 13

[img]http://www.isd.net/cdavis/images/Churburg_13.jpg[/img]

and Churburg 14

[img]http://www.isd.net/cdavis/images/Churburg_14.jpg[/img]

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-Chuck
aka Cadwallon y' Rhudd

[This message has been edited by Chuck Davis (edited 07-20-2002).]

Posted: **Sat Jul 20, 2002 2:45 pm**

Thank you Chuck. I HAVE seen #14 before, but it wasn't specifically identified, so i didn't realize what i was looking at.

Am i correct in assuming that #14 was actually the type that was most commonly used, and that #13 is just pictured so often becuase it looks "cool"?

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Otto von Aachen
Kingdom of the Outlands, Canton of Hawks Hollow

Posted: **Sat Jul 20, 2002 3:53 pm**

Well, yes and no.

There are other examples of segmented breastplates, but only in artwork, no other physical pieces are existing.

#14 is typically Italian in that it lacks the a central crease, but I would have to say your right. The solid breastplate is simplier to make and maintain.

-Cad

Posted: **Sat Jul 20, 2002 5:06 pm**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Chuck Davis:
There are other examples of segmented breastplates, but only in artwork, no other physical pieces are existing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Cad,

What pictures do you know of that show a segmented breastplate like this? I've seen the effigy of Herr Konrad von Bickenbach (c. 1390) that has lines down the front that might be meant to represent a segmented breastplate, but it also has two closely-spaced lines down the exact center which wouldn't make sense for that. I've been looking a long time for other pictures that can support this concept; can you direct me to any?

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2002 7:11 am**

Hi Sir Rhys,
We need to get in contact with Sir Bruno von De Eik [sp] of Atlantia. He was the author of "The Knight of the Month" that ran in the Hammer so long ago. For one of the articles, he mentions several and he may still have that information.

Otherwise, your right about just having to look at the drawing and guessing.
-Cad

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2002 11:39 am**

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Chuck Davis:
Hi Sir Rhys,
We need to get in contact with Sir Bruno von De Eik [sp] of Atlantia. He was the author of "The Knight of the Month" that ran in the Hammer so long ago. For one of the articles, he mentions several and he may still have that information.

Otherwise, your right about just having to look at the drawing and guessing.
-Cad<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow! I'd love to meet him; his work has done a lot to influence me. I had no idea he was still playing.

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2002 6:27 pm**

Double wow! I would also love to get hold of such info.

Erik