Adding Maille to an SCA Kettle

This forum is designed to help us spread the knowledge of armouring.
Post Reply
User avatar
T. Finkas
Archive Member
Posts: 5048
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Pennsic Adjacent

Adding Maille to an SCA Kettle

Post by T. Finkas »

Here's my project from this morning, adding a "faked" maille coif to my SCA fighting helmet, a Kettle/Chapel de Fer by Adam Berry of White Mountain Armoury (see below). I clipped the top off a MRL riveted coif and laced it onto the helmets lower grill/cage using heavy waxed thread.

Image

I can't decide if I like it yet. It bags a bit in the back, which I could adjust if I set my mind to it. Then again, I feel really apprehensive about fooling around with an arrangement that mostly seems to work. In order to make it fit better I could cut the maille at a slant, since the helmet is designed to sit at a slant. But cutting maille on a slant might be too much for me---my eye's water at the very thought of it. And if I screw it up, I can't bear the thought of the headache I'd have. Hey, maybe the slight bag is good cause it allows a bit of ease in movement?

I'd consider lining the maille but then I'd loose the airflow---and I think I want that airflow, thank you very much :) . The mantle seems to drape okay. One issue is that the weight of the coif seems to want to drag the front of the helmet downwards a bit. This is a factor since Adam designs these to tilt back a bit on the head and sit close to the neck in the back. Maybe the strapping arrangements will be able to manage this issue?

And that brings me to strapping. I have never been satisfied with my strapping arrangement. My initial arrangement was a single strap anchored above each ear (fastened to the top bar of the helmet's 360-degree lower bar-grill/cage) crossing below the chin and liberally padded. This worked marginally well, but I placed the buckle up so high the helmet was a MIGHTY effort to buckle and unbuckle whilst wearing my arm harness. I don't know about you, but I need my helmet to be quickly and easily donned and doffed. It's a real issue when just the task of buckling my helmet wears me out and drenches me in sweat! :)

Trouble is that the helmet fits so close, I and hardly get my fingers under the edge to hook a buckle. I am going to have to come up with a better solution, I know. But what? I guess I'll need to place the buckle right under my chin where I have the best chance of getting to it? Hmmm...

Understand that I wear this as a heavy combat archer. That gives you an idea of the range of movement I require and what sort of action this rig might be subject to.

Any comments or recommendations or suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks,
Tim
audax
Dark Overlord Chick of the Universe
Posts: 8416
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:44 am

Post by audax »

Hi Tim,

I think the mail drape looks great as is. But I have a bit of a mail fetish :D . As far as your chin strap, one thing that might work, though it would take a bit of trial and error, is simply lose the buckle. In other words, make a single strap with a slit or cup for your chin that you can slide up to remove and back down to to put on. It might take a couple of tries to get the length right but I think you could use machine screws to hold it in place until you like it and then rivet it in place.

Hope this helps.

audax
Martel le Hardi
black for the darkness of the path
red for a fiery passion
white for the blinding illumination
--------------------------------------
Ursus, verily thou rocketh.
User avatar
B. Amos
Archive Member
Posts: 949
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:12 am
Location: Petersburg, VA ( Cear Mear, Atlantia)
Contact:

Post by B. Amos »

That looks great Tim! I have the same two problems with my salt shaker helm, the maille bunches up at the back of the neck and the helm fits so well that I have trouble buckeling it. Im not sure of the best way to fix either of thease problems. With my kettle I cut the maille at an angle, it was not the nicest cut but most of the flaws are hidden by the brim, my kettle has a bigger brim so i don't know if it will work the same for yours.
Pax Vobiscum
- Bishop Amos le Pious
Count and Knight of the Lodge
User avatar
Alcyoneus
Archive Member
Posts: 27097
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Wichita, KS USA

Post by Alcyoneus »

It looks good. 8)
My 10yo daughter says I'm pretty!

Squire to Jarl Asgeirr Gunnarson, Barony of Vatavia, Calontir
User avatar
justus
Archive Member
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:45 pm
Location: Atlantia
Contact:

Post by justus »

That helm looks great!

I know several folks who use the camail on thier helm as the sole means of restraint. IE no chinstrap. Most of these guys are wearing basinets though so the helm sits lower, and the likley hood of the helm+camile comming off is slim.

I'm very happy with my chin strap, which is attached to the left side of my hlem, and has two cords that exit near my right ear. This is hidden under the leather on my helm, but I wonder if you could have the same arrangement under your mail, or even have the cords exit through the mail and tie on the outside.

At first I tried to pull the cords tight and then tie a bow knot in the string, but then I learned that if I just pulled the cords tight and tied a half not, it was just as secure. It is very fast to don and doff, and I've never had it come loose.

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... highlight=
Syr Justus de Tyre
Kingdom of Atlantia
Shire of Roxbury Mill

http://syrjustus.livejournal.com/
User avatar
T. Finkas
Archive Member
Posts: 5048
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Pennsic Adjacent

Post by T. Finkas »

Yeah, some cords coming through the maille (to tie or fasten on the outside) might just be the solution. I may give that one a try---thanks!
User avatar
white mountain armoury
Archive Member
Posts: 10538
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 1:01 am
Location: the Taiga

Post by white mountain armoury »

Cutting the maile is the solution for the bunching, i know its a frightening task, i need to do it for mine as well, cutting into an aventail from Knuut always makes me uneasy
I prefer kittens
User avatar
olaf haraldson
Archive Member
Posts: 3976
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2000 2:01 am
Location: Canton, NY, USA

Post by olaf haraldson »

I'm getting ready to do something similar with my helm. I want to put maille on it so it will come just below my eyes... looking just like a simple helm with a full maille drape. I was planning on getting one of Kings Lance coifs and cutting it as you did.
House Wolfhaven
Excellence in all we do.
Integrity first.
Service to the dream.
User avatar
InsaneIrish
SQUEEE!
Posts: 18252
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Jefferson City Mo. USA

Post by InsaneIrish »

Can't help with the maille bunching thing but I think I might have your chin strap issue figured out. I have the same type of situation with my helms. I have short fat hands/fingers and can't get them in tight spaces comfortably. So, this is how I rig my helms up. It works wonderfully for making minor adjustments to fit and is super easy to install for slat back helms.

Below is a quick picture "NOT TO SCALE" but you will get the idea:

TAN: leather strap(s)
yellow circles: speed rivets
White strips: Velcro

Basically I attach small "D" rings to the inside of the helm just above and slightly behind the temples. Then wrap the Velcro around each D ring and adjust to fit for height of your chin. Then feed the back strap and buckle strap through the back the helm (for you the back of the cage) and buckle for tightness.

This rig will help keep the helm where it should be and prevent the helm from tilting forward. A big plus is that it fastens in the back outside the helm so you can put it on in full armour.
Attachments
chinstrap-rig.jpg
chinstrap-rig.jpg (53.02 KiB) Viewed 268 times
Insane Irish

Quote: "Nissan Maxima"
(on Pennsic) I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.
User avatar
T. Finkas
Archive Member
Posts: 5048
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Pennsic Adjacent

Post by T. Finkas »

Adam,

Thanks for the feedback. I dunno...maybe I will cut it, maybe I won't. LOL.
But now that it is actually on the helmet, maybe I could thread a red string through the links I want to cut. That might make it easier to tell "where I am" during the trim-to-fit process. Heck the maille could use some "vinegar dulling" so I should remove it anyhow.

-----

Insane Irish,

I like that idea. And let me commend you on your excellent rendering---but of course I expect no less from you!

----

Cheers,
Tim
User avatar
white mountain armoury
Archive Member
Posts: 10538
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 1:01 am
Location: the Taiga

Post by white mountain armoury »

Tim, when i have to cut maile, and i have to for a couple different helms i slide my aventail over a large diameter pipe. Almost as big around as the aventail, this holds the maile in a spread out position and i can carefully mark each link for removal with a sharpie. I have had to cut out squares, triangles etc etc. It works out well that way.
I prefer kittens
User avatar
InsaneIrish
SQUEEE!
Posts: 18252
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Jefferson City Mo. USA

Post by InsaneIrish »

T. Finkas wrote:-----

Insane Irish,

I like that idea. And let me commend you on your excellent rendering---but of course I expect no less from you!

----

Cheers,
Tim


Well, thanks! :D

I have used that set up in every helmet I have owned and have had nothing but good experiences with it. It does and excellent job of keeping my face away from the grill and keeping the helmet from twisting around on my head. It operates in a similar fashion to a football 4 point chinstrap. Which is good when taking that freakshot to the temple from a hyped up fighter with a greadsword. :) :shock: :D
Insane Irish

Quote: "Nissan Maxima"
(on Pennsic) I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.
User avatar
justus
Archive Member
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:45 pm
Location: Atlantia
Contact:

Post by justus »

Just looking at the original picture on this thread, the only thing it's missing is a height chart on the back wall and a little black card with your name and social security number on it. :D
Syr Justus de Tyre
Kingdom of Atlantia
Shire of Roxbury Mill

http://syrjustus.livejournal.com/
User avatar
T. Finkas
Archive Member
Posts: 5048
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Pennsic Adjacent

Post by T. Finkas »

Hehe...and the text would be in that "Olde English" font, right?
User avatar
InsaneIrish
SQUEEE!
Posts: 18252
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Jefferson City Mo. USA

Post by InsaneIrish »

Public Enemy #1!!
Attachments
KettleWithCoif-new.jpg
KettleWithCoif-new.jpg (76.45 KiB) Viewed 141 times
Insane Irish

Quote: "Nissan Maxima"
(on Pennsic) I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.
User avatar
T. Finkas
Archive Member
Posts: 5048
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Pennsic Adjacent

Post by T. Finkas »

LOL. I protest! I am 5' 11" without a helmet on. Good one, InsaneIrish.
User avatar
justus
Archive Member
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:45 pm
Location: Atlantia
Contact:

Post by justus »

Nice Work! It is exactly what I wanted to do, only 10 times better.

-Justus
Syr Justus de Tyre
Kingdom of Atlantia
Shire of Roxbury Mill

http://syrjustus.livejournal.com/
Post Reply