The Armour Archive

Is there any historical evidence of limb defenses in particular being painted? Other than helms. I tried to do a search but the PC I'm on was not able to return results.

Thanks in advance,
Andy

although i have no citations handy, I would argue a definitive yes.

Through out what the 11-13th centuries, I have seen mainy very highly decorated leather pieces either carved or embossed featuring climbing vines, flowers and what have you all done in very bright yellows, golds, whites, and greens. On my old hard drive(currently under repair) I have some beautiful pictures of a very fine and very rare reproduction.

I have not actually seen many reproduction pieces in action of finely done leather in that style. Seems most people go straight to splint for Combat reasons, but during the various reinforced mail periods I've seen leather that was bright.

hope some one else can throw up some links to references

RictherBelmont wrote:although i have no citations handy, I would argue a definitive yes.

Through out what the 11-13th centuries, I have seen mainy very highly decorated leather pieces either carved or embossed featuring climbing vines, flowers and what have you all done in very bright yellows, golds, whites, and greens. On my old hard drive(currently under repair) I have some beautiful pictures of a very fine and very rare reproduction.

I have not actually seen many reproduction pieces in action of finely done leather in that style. Seems most people go straight to splint for Combat reasons, but during the various reinforced mail periods I've seen leather that was bright.

hope some one else can throw up some links to references

I would very much appreciate any further information you might have regarding said "very fine and very rare reproduction".

This is an area of specific interest to me and anything in the way of documentation of decorated leather armor catches my attention.

I'm short on references myself, as it seems quite difficult to determine with any confidence when looking at an effigy or illumination what material was being represented.

Gavin

ill post it as soon as i get my old hard drive back. Think i might have originally seen the pics posted on arador's old forums? could be wrong on that one though

Asteeley and all interested parties,

My documentation is thin, and I will have to look up the exact references, but what I have is rather thin. What I have done is taken brasses, effigies, and what illuminations, artist interpretations, and other sources I can find. I am willing to share the names, (once I look them up again) but I cannot post pics here because all of my sources are still copyrighted.

Please email me with your requests, and I will see what I can pull up.

Thank you all for your help, especially HotW. Dan, I sent you an email with a similar request.

A

Are these the repros you are talking about?

Gregoire,
Those are incredible! Though what I'm looking for is the historical evidence of such things.

A

There is an exquisitely embossed 14c rerebrace on display in the British Museum, in London with a similar, yet much more intricate design. The problem is, there is no evidence of paint on the piece.....Then there is a cuirbouilli great bascinet made sometime in the late 15 - early 16 c that doesn't have any evidence of embossing, but has traces of gesso and paint on it.

Then ofccourse there extant pieces of Horse barding on display at the MET and other places that are decidedly painted. I'm still looking for my sources.....I will have to get to back to all later today or tomorrow.

asteeley wrote:Gregoire,
Those are incredible! Though what I'm looking for is the historical evidence of such things.

Understood. I was responding to this...

RictherBelmont wrote:I have seen mainy very highly decorated leather pieces either carved or embossed featuring climbing vines, flowers and what have you all done in very bright yellows, golds, whites, and greens. On my old hard drive(currently under repair) I have some beautiful pictures of a very fine and very rare reproduction.

If anyone will have documentation, it will be HoW. In my mind, it would be strange for these NOT to be painted, but without documentation, we just can't be sure...

Gregoire de Lyon wrote:Are these the repros you are talking about?

Those are purty. Who made them and are there more pictures? Are they from some other thread?

What kind of shape are they in now, after fighting?

Corby de la Flamme wrote: Those are purty. Who made them and are there more pictures? Are they from some other thread?
What kind of shape are they in now, after fighting?

I got these pictures from Arador back a few years ago. I *believe* that they were originally posted here on the Archive, but I don't know where or when. It was at least two years ago.

I don't have any additional pictures stored, but I think that there were more in the original thread.

The guy who made them did it for a symposium in Italy, held by the Arms and Armor Society (??). He used lasts and hide glue to harden and then gessoed and painted. I honestly don't remember his name, though I think he has been referenced by some of the other leather armor guys here. In the conference proceedings he wrote a How-To that I've been very interested in seeing - unfortunately I can't get it through ILL and am disinclined ot spend the $55 to get it without a preview.

I don't think he was SCA...

Gregoire de Lyon wrote:

Corby de la Flamme wrote: In the conference proceedings he wrote a How-To that I've been very interested in seeing - unfortunately I can't get it through ILL and am disinclined ot spend the $55 to get it without a preview.

Not available, or you had some hitch with Interlibrary Loan?


I'm staff at UVa, which has some incredible libraries. Can you list the reference? Maybe we have it!

On a similar coincidental ('cause I just checked it out yesterday) topic, I recommend Leather Craftsmanship by John W. Waterer, published 1968 as a great source of pics, take aparts and discussion of methods on all kinds of leatherwork. Waterer spends a peculiarly large amount of the book talking about medieval leatherwork, including my favorite, the 12th century Breac Moedóic Budget. I used his diagrams of it to make a copy many years ago.

Wow. The Arms and Armor Society's website just about sucks the moon out of the sky.

Corby de la Flamme wrote:Not available, or you had some hitch with Interlibrary Loan?

University of Michigan Library was unable to find it in the network and was unwilling to order due to cost and niche-ness of the subject.

I'll try to find the reference.

I'm having little luck finding the reference here at work. I might have it saved on my computer at home though. If no one else finds it before this evening, I'll dig around and see what i can come up with...

Color me stupid...

A simple search here on the AA turned up the original thread. The pictures are gone from wherever they were originally hosted, but you can read the descriptions and the ensuing conversation. I recommend reading it if you are interested in the art of the hardened and decorated limb defense. Joe Skeesick describes a lot of what he did to make it happen.here

In that thread, I found the reference to the article as well:

"As Tough as Old Boots? A Study of Hardened Leather Armour. Part One: Techniques of Manufacture"
in
Dobson, Christopher (2003), Art and Arms: Florence, City of the Medici. ISBN 0-9541633-1-1
http://www.masterarmourer.com/publications.htm

also available from:

http://www.international-arms-and-armou ... tions.html [/url]

Thanks very much!

Here's one more pic found on Dobson's site--

[img]http://www.masterarmourer.com/images/Besagew.jpg[/img]

Try the directory there for lots of cool pics-----

http://www.masterarmourer.com/images/