Leather hardening/dying/finishing questions

[Gallus]

Greetings! I've been reading around here for a bit now, finally signed up. I've recently started getting into leathersmithing and I'm having a blast (tooling is fun!). As a starter project I'm making a pair of demigauntlets. They're all tooled up now and I'm ready to finish them, but I have a few questions still and I want to make sure I've got the order of operations right.

Here's the plan as it stands - let me know what all I've got wrong
1) Soak in room temperature water for 12 hours+.
2) Shape
3) Dye
4) Bake
5) Apply sheen/finish

And now the questions:
1) Where does rabbit hide glue fit into the hardening process? I've searched around, but I haven't seen it written out clearly enough to figure out how and when to use it. Help, please!
2) Edging - I've got a slicker and a bottle of gum tragacanth waiting to make my beveled edges a little less furry - that goes between steps 4 and 5, right?
3) Dying multiple colors - I'd like to do thea tooled design in one color and the background in another, what's the best way to prevent bleeding and keep things clean?
4) Conditioning - I'm planning to use a spirit-based dye (for the color selection), but I've been told that they can really dry out leather requiring a lot of conditioning to get it nice again. Is that something I'll have to worry about since I'll be dying soaked leather anyway? If so, how would that affect the process?

[Konstantin the Red]

Welcome and well come, Gallus!

1) Dunno, can't say.
2) I'd do it between steps 3 and 4, after the dyeing. Dying is expiring, dyeing makes colors. As you've doubtless noted, it colors your fingers pretty good too.
3) The darker dye in the stamping (technique rather similar to antiqueing), followed by a proper sealer to resist the next dye process in the lighter ground color.
4) The drying-out effect isn't extreme and can be well compensated for by a modest application of neatsfoot oil compound. Getting too crazy with the neatsfoot, such as trying to load up the leather piece with every drop of neatsfoot the piece will soak up, will affect the color by darkening the leather and adding that brown-sugar color that Sno-Seal puts on waterproofed boots. You can minimize this darkening by applying it to the back of the piece. Neatsfoot by itself will color leather very nicely if brown sugar is the color you wanted. Some variation of intensity may be achieved by a greater or lesser dosage. Since you're doing cuirboulli, you should oil only after you've baked: a little neatsfoot, then seal. The polymerization caused by the baking shouldn't impair absorption of the preservative oil.

[Kilkenny]

Greetings! I've been reading around here for a bit now, finally signed up. I've recently started getting into leathersmithing and I'm having a blast (tooling is fun!). As a starter project I'm making a pair of demigauntlets. They're all tooled up now and I'm ready to finish them, but I have a few questions still and I want to make sure I've got the order of operations right.

Here's the plan as it stands - let me know what all I've got wrong
1) Soak in room temperature water for 12 hours+.
2) Shape
3) Dye
4) Bake
5) Apply sheen/finish

And now the questions:
1) Where does rabbit hide glue fit into the hardening process? I've searched around, but I haven't seen it written out clearly enough to figure out how and when to use it. Help, please!
2) Edging - I've got a slicker and a bottle of gum tragacanth waiting to make my beveled edges a little less furry - that goes between steps 4 and 5, right?
3) Dying multiple colors - I'd like to do thea tooled design in one color and the background in another, what's the best way to prevent bleeding and keep things clean?
4) Conditioning - I'm planning to use a spirit-based dye (for the color selection), but I've been told that they can really dry out leather requiring a lot of conditioning to get it nice again. Is that something I'll have to worry about since I'll be dying soaked leather anyway? If so, how would that affect the process?

The way I've done hardening using glue is to take my shaped and dyed piece and dip it for a few minutes in a solution of water and glue, letting the thinned glue soak into the piece a bit. I know some people brush the glue onto the piece as it is baking (sort of like basting a roast).

I don't know that there's a "right" way to do it - I think more than one method can produce good results and it depends somewhat on the tools available and the method you're comfortable using.

Remember that when you make cuirboulle you're force drying the leather intentionally. That process will probably do more to dry out the leather than anything the dye you choose can possibly do

I'm not at all sure about the benefit of adding neatsfoot oil to hardened leather. Perhaps someone like Dan from House of the Wolf can advise us both on the subject.

Gavin

[Kilkenny]

Welcome and well come, Gallus!

1) Dunno, can't say.
2) I'd do it between steps 3 and 4, after the dyeing. Dying is expiring, dyeing makes colors. As you've doubtless noted, it colors your fingers pretty good too.
3) The darker dye in the stamping (technique rather similar to antiqueing), followed by a proper sealer to resist the next dye process in the lighter ground color.

mmmm.. I'm curious about the multiple color dyeing as well, and I don't quite follow what you are saying here. What I'm getting is: apply the darker dye first in the area you're tooling, and wipe away excess. Then use a sealer (such as ?) and apply the lighter color dye.

What I'm missing would be:
What's a proper sealer for this kind of purpose ?
What are you sealing ? the tooled area, the whole piece ?
When you apply the lighter color dye - over the whole piece, relying on the sealer to prevent it from affecting the first dye color ?

Some observations from my experience: Dyes tend to bleed something fierce and are very uncooperative about staying where you put them as compared to paints. This leads to a fair bit of frustration when trying to use more than one color dye on a piece

So, I'm quite interested in more detail about how one works around/with dyes in this kind of process. I happen to like the appearance of dyed leather better than painted, generally - definitely for any large areas - so I'm eager to learn ways of managing the dyes to better effect.

Thanks

Gavin

[Maelgwyn]

...
Here's the plan as it stands - let me know what all I've got wrong
1) Soak in room temperature water for 12 hours+.
2) Shape
3) Dye
4) Bake
5) Apply sheen/finish

And now the questions:
1) Where does rabbit hide glue fit into the hardening process? I've searched around, but I haven't seen it written out clearly enough to figure out how and when to use it. Help, please!
2) Edging - I've got a slicker and a bottle of gum tragacanth waiting to make my beveled edges a little less furry - that goes between steps 4 and 5, right?
3) Dying multiple colors - I'd like to do thea tooled design in one color and the background in another, what's the best way to prevent bleeding and keep things clean?
4) Conditioning - I'm planning to use a spirit-based dye (for the color selection), but I've been told that they can really dry out leather requiring a lot of conditioning to get it nice again. Is that something I'll have to worry about since I'll be dying soaked leather anyway? If so, how would that affect the process?

My $.02

Your soak time sounds excessive unless you are using sole leather and it just isn't absorbing the water. The casing I use for hammer shaping is a bit wetter than I would use for tooling but still far from saturated.

1) I soak in rabbit glue after dying and before baking. I use a long soak, 20-60 minutes depending on the thickness of the leather.
2) Edge slicking can be done any time after step 1. I would do it after dying and before the rabbit glue because it may affect the way the leather takes up the dye. I do not use gum or wax for slicking on pieces I plan to harden, so I don't know what effect it might have on glue absorbtion.
3) A steady hand, a very fine paintbrush, and a lot of patience. I dye lightest color first and work towards the darkest. Incised lines help to reduce bleed-through but they will not save you if you put too much dye on the leather at once. VERY fine paintbrush. LOTS of patience.
4) Hardened leather is not supple. Conditioning will not keep it supple. Glue-treated leather is fairly water resistant but not water proof. A wax outer coat like supersheen or beeswax will seal either bake-hardened or glue-treated leather very nicely.