The Armour Archive

Hello folks,

I just finished up my all leather coat-of-plates today. It is inspired by one of the front-opening Wisby finds. The rivets are punched through armour grade 13-15 oz. leather and a thinner layer over the top, which includes the tassets. There are some 200 copper rivets on it, hand set with varying degrees of skill, depending on how many I'd do in a sitting or how tired I was when I did them!

The buckles are solid brass. I don't like how they turned out on the front, really. They seem to make it all look too bulky because they stick out so far. Probably the last time I use the ones with the second slit for the strap to run under. I've been workin' on this for a while, but was held back after running out of buckles, rivets and dye after I started. I made it from my own pattern, which was cut directly from the leather. I'm one of the "measure once, sketch and cut it the hell out!" guys. No patterns for me to test...

After the initial trimming, it turned out pretty much how I wanted it. Because of the stiffness at the top of the shoulders it doesn't round to well yet, but some good sweating will do the trick! Ha, ha. It was made to fit over my gambeson and a mail shirt, but I do not have a shirt to use... It'll fit someone a bit larger than me with either just mail or just a gambeson, or even a bit larger with neither!

It goes with my 14th century kit, which is closing to an end... I may sell it all, depending on what it turns out like. Anyway, I'm glad with how this turned out except for some minor things. But, it was very experimental so I'm not mad at myself or anything!

Cheers, folks!

-Gregory-

Here are a couple of other images. The first is it laid out flat, and the second is the first day I started work on it. That was sometime back in July. I cut out the thick leather portion of it and honestly didn't know what I was going to make at the time, exactly... I made the thing to flare inward towards the bottom to give it some shape, and it worked, but as a consequence the back portion pushes outward some. Someone larger than me, or having a mail shirt on my back would negate this effect.

-Gregory-

[img]http://static.flickr.com/103/298532294_35faedd7e8_o.jpg[/img]

Sexy. I have to admit I do not have that kind of patience when it comes to armour. Now clothing...

Greg, that rocks, dude. Good to see someone younger than me is interested enough in his love of history and reenactment to actually go ahead and just make something (and I turn 21 in a couple of weeks! you're insane, man!).

-Ed

Nice work looks great!,,, the buckles look good in the pictures

That is a Brigandine.

Are there plates under the leather? It doesn't appear so...

Gregory J. Liebau wrote:Hello folks,

I just finished up my all leather coat-of-plates today. It is inspired by one of the front-opening Wisby finds.

I thought that the front opening Visby finds were presumed to be lamellar or salvaged lamellar plates sewn inside another garment? Sorry but I don't keep that book at work.

Either way your piece has a reasonable silouete for the time period. Will the heavy weigh leather be enough for the sport you are pursuing?

Sean

Hello Sean,

I made it based on a reconstruction presented on the Armour Archive and some I've seen using the pattern. Technically, I suppose they would be more like lamellar, and the entire thing a brigandine. I call it a CoP because of the period, as second nature. Pardon my doing so if there would be a more appropriate term. I believe that with the padding and such this will suffice for SCA. I wore it at a practice before it was done and the locals found it suitable.

Dalewyn, the first sentence of my thread said this is an "all leather" CoP. Think of the rivets as decoration to make it look like it's the real thing, like Dan's leather arms and legs.

Cheers, sirs.

-Gregory-

Brigandines are an evolutionary decendant of "Coats of Plates". I believe Thordeman also makes this connection.

Coats of Plates began as a way to gather smaller plates of iron together in an articulated fashion to provide defense for the torso. As this form of armour evolved, it branched into two distinct families. The first family trended towards larger and larger plates, eventually discarding the foundation garment (the jupon), until the "white harness" was born. The second family trended towards smaller and smaller plates. This lived on for some time as the "brigandine" armour.

So technically, coats of plates are brigandines, and vice versa. I believe what distinguishes a "brigandine" is the doublet-like cut of the 15th and later centuries, combined with the use of quite small plates.

The Wisby finds (c.1361) include some 20+ torso armours of the "coat of plates" style of armour, some with large plates, and other with many many small plates. The ones with smaller plates are probably very "brigandine like" but the era predates the time of "brigandine" armour as we usually consider it.

Steve

Steve -SoFC- wrote:The Wisby finds (c.1361) include some 20+ torso armours of the "coat of plates" style of armour, some with large plates, and other with many many small plates. The ones with smaller plates are probably very "brigandine like" but the era predates the time of "brigandine" armour as we usually consider it.

Steve

Hey Steve,

I've read a lot about the finds of the era, and thought of this project exactly the way you just described it. I realized these finds had more plates than the common CoP examples, but felt they were rather early to take on the term "brigandine," even with such glaring similarities.

I know some other people's opinions vary, but I seem to find this a rather commonly accepted way of going about it. I don't really want to argue it much. I don't have the patience right now, after dealing with some similar things on my Bronze Age Center earlier in the week... Ha, ha.

Cheers, sir.

-Gregory-

nicely done !

Gregory J. Liebau wrote:the first sentence of my thread said this is an "all leather" CoP. Think of the rivets as decoration to make it look like it's the real thing,

-Gregory-

So are there leather plates under the leather shell or is this a faux COP with the rivets just providing the illusion of a COP? If the later maybe you should be describing it as a wisby-like buff coat or similar.

Sean

Sean Powell wrote:So are there leather plates under the leather shell or is this a faux COP with the rivets just providing the illusion of a COP? If the later maybe you should be describing it as a wisby-like buff coat or similar.

Sean

Ah, I now understand the question, Sean. No, there are no plates. It is just providing the illusion. I do not see why I should describe it otherwise if I've noted my construction methods. It is a faux piece, as are many other leather pieces like Dan Houchins own line of "splinted" armour. He describes his construction and then labels it appropriate to what it is mimicking. I do the same.

Adam,

Thank you for the compliment, sir. Hearing that from you is a great thing!

-Gregory-

Sweeeeeeeeeet! I love the design of that. That, and it is sooooo wonderfully red....mmmmm. Is it actually 1 piece around? If it is, where did you get on that large with no glaring bad spots to work around?

Where does it line up on your body? It may be the dags, but it looks like it rides a bit lower than most...

Also, I'm dreadfully curious...how did you get the simulated plate lines? It really looks like you got plates under that.

And finally, would you mind if I gave that a shot? Looks glorious, and I was contemplating a faux CoP, Brig, or Corrazina. It just got me all inspired. I wanted to ask just so as you didn't see me post pics one day and think I ripped you off...lol

Most excellent!!!

Christopher

Sweeeeeeeeeet! I love the design of that. That, and it is sooooo wonderfully red....mmmmm. Is it actually 1 piece around? If it is, where did you get on that large with no glaring bad spots to work around?

Thank you Chris! It is one piece around. I have a Leather Factory about 45 minutes from my place and I hand pick my leather. I buy saddle skirting on sale months, and it's usually in about 20-22 sq. feet per side. I get plenty of it every few months, to keep my projects going! No bad spots on this! The front piece is much thinner and looked even nicer, as it was for covering stuff up and such, would be good for shield covers, etc.

Where does it line up on your body? It may be the dags, but it looks like it rides a bit lower than most...

If you'll look at the mock-up image when I taped it onto my body back in July, you'll see that it goes just around to my belly button. Note that I can sit down with it on and it only rides up about an inch or so more than when I'm standing.

Also, I'm dreadfully curious...how did you get the simulated plate lines? It really looks like you got plates under that.

I just used a yard stick and made a bunch of straight lines, rather like graph paper, over the entire surface. I just drilled all of the holes and started punching the rivets through! They aren't pop rivets either, as I made some mention of earlier, but are all hand-peened. That's why some are sloppy (especially around the edges, which was done before I had a setter) and some are quite nice. My ex-girlfriend helped me with it a couple of months back when we were still going out. She got quite good at riveting!

And finally, would you mind if I gave that a shot? Looks glorious, and I was contemplating a faux CoP, Brig, or Corrazina. It just got me all inspired. I wanted to ask just so as you didn't see me post pics one day and think I ripped you off...lol

Oh, not at all! I'd be happy to see you do something similar. I love your work, and would appreciate seeing your take on such a project. Might I request that you use a different pattern, if this one doesn't suit your fancy the most, by chance. That way we can have two very unique but similarly designed faux CoP's.

But, if you like this front-buckling one, I won't take any offense at your making one! I just thought it would be cool if you were to do a different style, perhaps!

Cheers, Chris!

-Gregory-

Oh, not at all! I'd be happy to see you do something similar. I love your work, and would appreciate seeing your take on such a project.

Thank you! I appreciate the compliment!

I won't take any offense at your making one! I just thought it would be cool if you were to do a different style, perhaps!

Well, I love front opening CoPs, Brigs and Corrazinas. But don't worry, it will still be a different project. Hopefully you'll see the inspiration, but it won't look quite the same. Hopefully I'll have it done by Christmas.

Thanks,
Christopher

I'm actually considering doing something similar. I am working on a mid 14th century German impression, and want to wear a coat of plates over maille and an arming coat. For SCA combat, this may be overkill. I'm either going to have fake plates (rivets only), or very thin (18GA) stainless steel plates.

Steve

Steve, you should know that 18 ga stainless is not "very thin" for a coat of plates! That's actually stronger than average for SCA (average being 18 ga mild). 20 ga stainless might qualify as "very thin". However, with what you're going to be wearing under it, I think 20 ga ss would be fine.

Steve -SoFC- wrote:I'm actually considering doing something similar. I am working on a mid 14th century German impression, and want to wear a coat of plates over maille and an arming coat. For SCA combat, this may be overkill. I'm either going to have fake plates (rivets only), or very thin (18GA) stainless steel plates.

Steve

First of all, I think that your work is excellent!
I too am thinking about doing something similar, and I have a couple of questions...
In looking at the pic of the COP from the front, it looks like the arm holes are a pretty standard shape, how is the range of motion? I have a leather BP of 13-15 oz that started life about the same shape but I had to modify the arm holes because I couldnt reach across my chest without the edge digging in to my front deltoid muscle. I had to cut away about 2 1/2 inches of leather just so I could move my arms normally. I guess my point is that I want to keep an accurate look, and I havent seen any that look like what I need. And range of motion would be limited even more with plates under the leather.
Here is the idea I am having, give me your opinions please! I am thinking of following similar construction methods, with a base leather of 13-15 oz and a top layer of 3-5 oz, both attached to 18 ga. plates. On the base layer I will cut the arm hole profile larger to accomodate my movement, but the top layer of 3-5 oz I will cut with the more period look arm hole. Hopefully this will give me the look and range of motion that I am after. Has anyone done something similar?
If so, how did it work out?
Also its very possible that I am overlooking an easier method, or maybe even that worrying about a 2 1/2 inch difference in shape is going a little overboard.
Thanks!

Hey Valley,

Thanks for the compliment on the work. As for the range of motion, I don't have any problems stretching about as much as I can with just my gambeson on while this is on, as well. I can put my arms plenty forward without feeling bothered, and I don't think it would cause any problems in armoured combat. I did wear it before it was completed at an SCA practice and did not feel as though my range of motion was impeded in any way.

As for the 18 gauge plates PLUS the 13-15 oz. leather, I don't think anyone would tell you that isn't overkill. That kind of protection would stop you feeling virtually anything... I'd recommend either sticking with the thick leather under the thin piece, or the plates under the thin piece. What you proposed is much too heavy.

-Gregory-