Arming Doublet and Mail Gussets

Richard de Scolay · Post by **Richard de Scolay** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 12:27 pm

I'm in the process of making an arming doublet and plan to add removable mail gussets. My only problem is that I'm not sure how to point a gusset to the doublet securely.

The only historical reference I've found thus far ("To arm a man") seems to indicate that the gussets are either pointed or more specifically sewn to the doublet. The reference to sewn may just mean tied with the points since the sentence before and after the sewn reference are both dealing with the points.

Here's one of my favorite webpages, "Arming a knight", that shows a well made doublet with gussets, but I can't tell from the photos how exactly the gussets are pointed.

My only thought so far is to sew strips of leather to the doublet at the edges and across the bend of the joint. The idea would be to point the gussets by weaving the point through a series of holes in the leather and to the outer row of mail and across the bend. This would seem to be a decent solution, but is it overkill, especially since I would only plan to use the gussets on special occasions like demos and such?

Looking for advice...

Thanks,
--Richard

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 1:21 pm

Richard

On the 2nd page you sent he has little openings sewn into the doublet for the points to thread through. The best way to do this is to get an awl like this one http://www.historicenterprises.com/sl/misc.html or I got one for wood working at my local hardware store. What you do is work the awl through the layers of your material, I like to have 3 or 4 layers for strength, work it all the way to the fat end. It will create an opening without cutting or fraying the material. Just sew the hole open by hand with a button stitch and with a thick thread. Applying beeâ€™s wax to the thread is also recommended. I have to keep inserting the awl to reopen the hole while sewing it open, the material likes to close up. What ever you do, don't cut opening into the material, they will fray no matter how tight you button hole stitch is.

Hope that helps.

Flonzy

------------------
Cheap garb is as bad as plastic armor.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy

Jeffrey Hedgecock · Post by **Jeffrey Hedgecock** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 1:54 pm

Flonzy's got it dead on.

You don't want to cut the fibres of the cloth, just spread them with the awl. It's much stronger that way too. Under NO circumstances should you punch a hole in the fabric.

Leather isn't really necessary for gusset/voider points, as they're not under all that much stress.

Generally for points carrying armour, I like to back the inside of the arming point with leather, as these receive MUCH more stress.

------------------
Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock,
Armourer, Historic Arms & Armour
http://www.historicenterprises.com
Maitre of The Red Company-1471
http://www.theredcompany-1471.org

Richard de Scolay · Post by **Richard de Scolay** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 2:20 pm

Thanks for the tips so far. I have a pierceing awl, so that's not a problem.

Jeffrey, the idea of using the leather behind the point is an interesting idea. I had been thinking to put the leather on the front and not have the point pierce the actual cloth. I was just going to sew a circular piece of leather to the cloth and have the point holes only be in the leather. The thought was that circular leather with double rows of stitching would evenly distribute the stress over the cloth. But with your idea with the leather on the inside would act as a washer and also spread the stress. I've also seen a point done with a square of leather folded over to form a flap with the holes in the flap. That seems the easiest to install and replace if the point wears out over time.

My question is, beyond the method of pointing, how many points should I use for the gussets?

Would I need point holes all along the edges of the gussets in order secure the gusset and to keep it from sagging away from the doublet?

Thanks again,
--Richard

Gwen · Post by **Gwen** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 3:05 pm

******SHAMELESS PLUG*******

I made the arming coat.

****END OF SHAMELESS PLUG****

Gwen

Richard de Scolay · Post by **Richard de Scolay** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 3:22 pm

< on knees, arms forward, bowing repeatedly >
We're not worthy... We're not worthy...

Gwen, that is a very nice looking coat!

Now will you be so kind as to share some tips?

I've got my panels cut and quilted now. I'm using cotton trigger, 2 layers of cotton batting, and a cotton broadcloth interior. I've just washed and dried the panels so they're already shrunk and the initial fading is done.

Next I'm trying to decide how to sew the connecting seams (sleeves, sides, shoulders, etc.). I'm thinking of first sewing the trigger layer only and then folding in the batting and sewing the broadcloth last so that my inside seam alowance only shows the broadcloth. I think this will be a little more difficult than it sounds. My wife is suggesting that I just sew all four layers and surge the seam allowance. The last thought I had was to just edge all the sides of all the panels and then lace everything together, though that is my least likely option.

Now back on this topic. Gwen, were you involved with the points that were used for the gussets? If so, can you explain how they were done?

Thanks,
--Richard

Gwen · Post by **Gwen** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 11:13 pm

I can't give you much insight into how Lonnie did his voiders, as he did that on his own after he received the coat. Why don't you email him and ask him? As I recall he was a nice enough fellow to work with, and as much as he loves that armour, I bet he'd love to talk about it with someone who was interested!

I construct my coats in a very specific fashion quite unlike the method you describe. The method you describe (sewing the trigger first, etc.) seems unduly complicated and has a lot of room to make a mess of the coat if your sewing isn't absolutely perfect. Since you already have the panels complete, it seems to me that serging the edges and sewing them together would be the best way to go about assembly. I would recommend sewing the pieces together very firmly, maybe go over the seams twice to make sure nothing will pull apart. Since the seam allowances will be bulky, you could either whip them to the body by hand or stitch through all layers next to the seam so they lay flat.

I can't say I like the idea of lacing it all together at all. There's no historical precedence for it, and I think it would be kind of funny looking and difficult to wear.

Hope that helps!

Gwen

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 11:25 pm

For securing the voiders, you might try sewing them down with large stitches using stitching-awl thread: swift, sturdy, semi-permanent, and likely trouble free.

Richard de Scolay · Post by **Richard de Scolay** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 1:21 am

Thanks for the additional information.

I spoke with some of the ladies at fighter practice tonight and they concured that surging was the best approach.

Regards,
--Richard