The Armour Archive

Sir Gaston wrote:
I have done Whitney Huston, Marylyn Manson, Leslie Nielson, Gary Oldman,

SLUT!!!!

Durasteel Corporation wrote:Now, lay the newly cut strips one at a time....into the paint tray with resin....

Use the bristle brush to saturate the cloth, but to GENTLY ""squeeze"" excessive resin out of the mat/cloth.

And then lay these "wet" strips into your mold, overlapping....working out air bubbles etc.

Sorry Mr. Durasteel but, this is one of the B.S. techniques I was warning about. You do not lay glass strips in resin, then take them out and put them in your mold.
Read a book on modern composites. You will learn a correct method and your work will be better. I will find the titles to some books that will give you proper professional techniques that you can use. Having worked with high end aerospace composites and learned frp from guys that where around when it was invented, I have a hard time letting mis-information go unchallenged.

Krieger wrote:

Sir Gaston wrote:
I have done Whitney Huston, Marylyn Manson, Leslie Nielson, Gary Oldman,

SLUT!!!!

Your just mad cause I beat you to them. Hey didn't you "do me"?

Durasteel Corporation wrote:Durability though is relative though Al, ....fiberglass is "brittle and weak" compared to steel.

I think people need to figure out if they want a one time shop cast for making armour or for displaying it...or both.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Proper FRP is very strong. It only gets brittle if you use too much resin.

Sir Gaston wrote:

Krieger wrote:

Sir Gaston wrote:
I have done Whitney Houston, Marylyn Manson, Leslie Nielson, Gary Oldman,

SLUT!!!!

Your just mad cause I beat you to them. Hey didn't you "do me"?

Maybe the first one, depending on whether she was in the 'crack' phase of her life.

You can hog MM, LN, and GO to yourself, I won't fight you or Krieger for them.

How long does it generally take for the fiberglass&resin to set up? I'm really only familiar with it under a vacuum, and cooking it in an oven. Somehow, I don't see people liking that very much.

Krieger wrote:

Sir Gaston wrote:
I have done Whitney Huston, Marylyn Manson, Leslie Nielson, Gary Oldman,

SLUT!!!!

ok wise guy, you have any idea how hard it is to laugh with a sleeping baby in your lap?

When you don't autoclave it, it takes 1 to 4 hrs depending on thickness and room temp.

Here are a couple of books that are in line with what I think wil help people learn composit materials. Competition Car Composites is part of a series I have read. It should be pretty good.
http://www.kitcarlinks.com/booksusa-fiberglass.htm

Sir Gaston wrote:

Krieger wrote:

Sir Gaston wrote:
I have done Whitney Huston, Marylyn Manson, Leslie Nielson, Gary Oldman,

SLUT!!!!

Your just mad cause I beat you to them. Hey didn't you "do me"?

So much for family secrets.....


EEEEEeeeeeeuuuuuuuwwwwwww!

But you where under direct supervision by Ugo, so....

Sir Gaston wrote:

Durasteel Corporation wrote:Now, lay the newly cut strips one at a time....into the paint tray with resin....

Use the bristle brush to saturate the cloth, but to GENTLY ""squeeze"" excessive resin out of the mat/cloth.

And then lay these "wet" strips into your mold, overlapping....working out air bubbles etc.

Sorry Mr. Durasteel but, this is one of the B.S. techniques I was warning about. You do not lay glass strips in resin, then take them out and put them in your mold.
Read a book on modern composites. You will learn a correct method and your work will be better. I will find the titles to some books that will give you proper professional techniques that you can use. Having worked with high end aerospace composites and learned frp from guys that where around when it was invented, I have a hard time letting mis-information go unchallenged.

Well, there being many ways to skin a cat my friend.

Ive been doing all manner of lay up (including the very opposite of strip saturation, spray guns, rotocast, etc) for for the better part of a 13 years, professionally, and with great results with all types of techniques...
That saturation method is not ideal for initial lay in....rather additional lay up and it works perfectly fine especially if done properly.

And by properly, Im not talking about "dripping blobs and gobs" of resin. Im talking about brushing a very thin layer of resin up over the strip....letting the resin drain out of it....and equally smoothing it out with the brush in the pan...and then applying it on the already dry "gelcoated" initial layer. Then with ones wet brush, simply brush from the inside of the strip out to the four sides. ...takes but nano-seconds, and is easy. And while they do not occur often, it does not take much practice to work out an air bubble.

Hows that for misleading BS that works really well and produces great results!

Sir Gaston wrote:

Durasteel Corporation wrote:Durability though is relative though Al, ....fiberglass is "brittle and weak" compared to steel.

I think people need to figure out if they want a one time shop cast for making armour or for displaying it...or both.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Proper FRP is very strong. It only gets brittle if you use too much resin.

Ah, my point is that many people who have not used fiberglass can have widly differing concepts of its properties. Generally store bought resins are the bottom of the barrel. If done right it can be very strong....but it can also be brittle.....it can chip, and it can break. Each material has its own pros and cons.....wouldnt you agree? This also depends on its thickness, the "fibers" used, the resin (epoxy, polyester........ad naseum. And fiberglass is flexible --to a point but its not steel (an analogy I though most would understand around here.

Durasteel Corporation wrote:
Well, there being many ways to skin a cat my friend.

Ive been doing all manner of lay up (including the very opposite of strip saturation, spray guns, rotocast, etc) for for the better part of a 13 years, professionally, and with great results with all types of techniques...
That saturation method is not ideal for initial lay in....rather additional lay up and it works perfectly fine especially if done properly.

And by properly, Im not talking about "dripping blobs and gobs" of resin. Im talking about brushing a very thin layer of resin up over the strip....letting the resin drain out of it....and equally smoothing it out with the brush in the pan...and then applying it on the already dry "gelcoated" initial layer. Then with ones wet brush, simply brush from the inside of the strip out to the four sides. ...takes but nano-seconds, and is easy. And while they do not occur often, it does not take much practice to work out an air bubble.

Hows that for misleading BS that works really well and produces great results!

This is an unnecessary step and does result in too much resin in your layup. The number of years you have done something incorrectly or inefficiently does not justify it as correct. If you have not done it another way, how do you know your results are good? For the past 30 years I have worked with composites and have hired many “expertsâ€

Chris I dont disagree with what your saying. And I certainly dont think of you as my enemy

What Im driving at is that there are many ways to skin a cat....and in this case...body casts, my experience has been that a thinly saturated piece can be just as effective and efficient as a spray in or brush over approach post initial "gelcoating". The endless variables and problems that can also come into the equation is the thickness of the mat/cloth and the viscosity of the resin and the shape of the mold are the very reason Im suggesting that a lightly saturated (remember Im not saying gobs and blobs of ozzing resin here....just a thin layering) is essentially the same thing as brushing it into a naked strip of cloth after its in the mold. Really what Im trying to prevent is the issue of fiber-lift off that can occur when a wet brush hits the bare cloth....which can really frustrate someone who is new to this. ...after the initial detail coat is finished....I like to brush in a very light layer on top of it to "wet" the surface. I then lay in very lightly saturated strips, making for great adheasion and virtually zilch bubble factor. And if the strip is brushed from the midpoint out, bubbles are virtually non existant.

If I was laying up a boat, or something that required high performance I would alter my approach somewhat....but for simply strengthening up a body cast and for the sake of newbies, I think the lightly saturated strip approach is the best middle ground approach.

In addition, like I said, cloth thickness and resin viscosity has a lot to do with the ease or difficulty of premold saturation vs. in mold saturation. I use very thick mat so I prefer the premold saturation approach as it saves time and keeps the mat from sticking to the brush. I precut 85% of my strips into specific shapes ahead of time too, so I know exactly where they are going, this also eleviates bubbles.

Basically, I dont have a problem, nor are bubbles or strength an issue.

Thanks everyone who posted. This has been a very informative thread.

Sir Gaston, thanks for your post especially and the links you posted.