The Armour Archive

I am currently working on a Sasanian Persian SCA harness, and I have a nice set of 5-piece, highly-European elbows that I made ages ago that I had been planning to use until I get around to figuring out manica. But it occurred to me that since I need to make the rest of my arms anyway, I may as well make bazubands – they are not quite period for me, but far, far closer than the elbows. But, I have some questions:

Does anyone know where I can find a good pattern for metal bazubands? The only one I can find is the leather pattern in the “Perfect Armourâ€

BUMP

Someone has kindly volunteered to mail me a pattern, but I would still like to hear people's observations about them, esp. preferences between leather and metal, and how the back of the elbow is dealt with.

Jamie
LU2.DUB.SAR

Ushumgal:

Not perhaps what you were looking for, but it is one thing you mentioned you wanted.

Legio XX-Manica--segmented armguards

It occurs to me that this harness can be made with a leather hinge to make more laminated plates for the inner forearm and bicep. This would make the manica far more protective for the purpose of combat with big sticks. You will (of course) want to add padded sleeves to your subarmalis.

[This message has been edited by Templar Bob/De Tyre (edited 04-25-2003).]

RE: Bazubands

I used to wear bazubands--many, many years ago when I fought in a leather lamellar klibanion. In order to make them legal for SCA combat, they have to be altered sufficiently that form and function is compromised. This leads to the fighter doing one or two things:

<B>
• Wear authentic bazubands with hidden modern sports equipment under the clothing.
  
• Wear inauthentic (but SCA legal) bazubands (and deal with the bazubands slipping down your arm).
  
• Go with a segmented arm harness on internal leathers.

</B>

One of my solutions was a long-sleeves stainless welded hauberk, with hidden elbow protection and vambraces. This helps to present a late Sassanid klibanarius armour. I also wore a mailled aventail that covered my whole helm up to the brim, leaving only my eyes exposed.

Hope this helps.

T-Bob, thanks for the manica link. I have been puttin that on the back burner for now, since I first need to get a functional suit of armour (I want to be able to go fight at Pennsic this year), so I figured I would do something simple for now and figure out the manica later (I plan on *attempting* the full tube kind, that seem to be indicated by period artwork). Also, I have a suspicion that I am going to want to wear elbow pads under the manica.

I would love to have seen your klibanarius outfit, and you are quite right that the most accurate period armour for me would be mostly maille with a spangenhelm and full maille aventail (as in the Taq i-Bustan reliefs). But I want to avoid maille (since I personally find it immensely tedious to make, and I can't afford to buy the good stuff). That's why I decided to do lamellar, a spangenhelm with face mask and, eventually, manica for arms and legs.

So what exactly is the trouble with bazubands? I've seen other people selling them (see link below), so I assumed they must be workable. Is the problem because when your arm is straight, the dished elbow section is sticking way out?? Why do they tend to slip down your arm? It looks like they are usually just strapped on - maybe pointing them to the gambeson would prevent this? Perhaps I should to a hybrid thing - a vambrace and simple elbow cop connected with a leather hinge?

Here's a nice looking SCA bazuband: http://www.dbis.ns.ca/~carlomeg/bazuband.jpeg

Thanks,
Jamie
LU2.DUB.SAR

Metal bazubands tend to slip forward way too easily, so that the elbow part isn't protecting your elbow, and the cuff is binding your wrist. Plus, they can be extremely heavy. That's pretty much a deterrent for most people.

The one SCA fighter I know that uses them and makes them work is Sir Ustad (the Dredded). He plays an Ottoman Turkish mounted warrior, circa 1400. Overall very impressive kit.

I wear them and have never had a problem..

see here:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~rholley16/sarnacvsaaron

I am in the red tunic...black lamellar

they were made by White Mountain Armoury and are 16 ga stainless I think...and they rock!
I never have a problem of them slipping because I rivited a neoprene elbow pad into them and have points on the back above the elbow that point to my gambeson.

I used to wear leather bazubands but took a nasty shot on the point of the elbow and shattered it.

so...instead of getting surgery like a normal person....I got stainlees elbow protection so I dont CRY every time my arm gets hit!!

[This message has been edited by sarnac (edited 04-26-2003).]

If you mail me a self addressed envelope i will send you my pattern
My recomendation is to wear them pointed to a foundation garment.
When pointed to a sleeve the vambrace closures only keep the bazuband shut, they stay in place because they are tied to your sleeve. Its not authentic but it works quite well.
I also run a small leather thong across the elbow to make sure my elbow stays in the cop portion. On a norman bazuband the elbow points become exposed when the arm is fully extended. you can see the bazubands on my site have a small wing too keep the points covered when the bazuband is pushed away from the arms when its extended
a list legal manica has alot of parts, but you can stick a couter in ther for the elbow
and the rest is done like a spaudler.
but a 16 ga stainless bazuband would be like a feather compared to a manica.

WMA - thanks, I would love to try that pattern! Shall I send it to the address on your site? Regular business sized envelope?

I'm not sure what you mean by pointing with the vambrace closures - do you mean you use the actual cords you are pointing them with to also hold the vambrace closed? Like having overlapping holes that you run the cord up through?

Sarnac - thanks, I think I will also try the extra padding. I take it the axis upon which it rotates is essentially the very back edge of the bazuband? Otherwise, if it rotated at the point of the elbow, when the arm is straight, the cords on the back would go slack and allow the bazuband to slide down.

Thanks!
Jamie
LU2.DUB.SAR

[This message has been edited by ushumgal (edited 04-26-2003).]

any one ever tell you your a hell of a guy Adam?

Your the first Sarnac.
Ushumgal, i reccomend pointing the bazuband on the back side, ill mark the pattern if you like.
My previous post was likely confusing. I use leatehr thongs to close the bazuband, but thats it, no matter how tight you make them they wont hold the bazuband on, its the same problem with most arm armour, your arm is tapered, sorta cone shaped, nomatter how tight you tie/buckle a vambrace or a bazuband they will slide down, so instead you tie it to the sleeve, so even with the vambrace portion not closed the bazuband stays where you want it.
And yes use the addy on my site, any size envelop will do.

Ah, ok, I get it now *dim bulb flickers on*. So it is just the point at the elbow that keeps the bazuband in place, and the elbow strap keeps my elbow in the right place. I'm looking forward to trying this out! The envelope is in the mail, and thanks again, Adam. What a guy - even Ace Rimmer can't hold a candle to him!

Jamie
LU2.DUB.SAR

There is a tie at the elbow to make sure the elbow stays seated on the dished portion, and another about halfway down the back side
the keeps it from sliding down, its realy a matter of what works best for you

I used to wear steel bazubands for SCA combat. To strap them I made a leather strap that went completely arround the arm just above the elbow. The strap was wider arround the back (kind of like a small weight lifting belt). I then riveted the strap inside the bazuband with two rivets, one on each side so that the strap would pivot like a lame would on an articulation elbow. Since the arm narrows just above the elbow the strap kept the bazuband from sliping down. Had to try differenct shapes and hole positions for the strap until I found one that didn't cut off circulation or allow the elbow to float out of the bazuband. Once I did though worked great.

Buqu

Here is a pic of a pair that is almost finished, just have to add the elbow strap.

They are one piece rivited construction,well two if you count the vambrace. They are light as heck but really tough since all the edges are rolled.

http://home.armourarchive.org/members/rainald/bauz.jpg

Nice - I like the fluting. What gauge metal did you use? Stainless?

Jamie
LU2.DUB.SAR

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ushumgal:
<B>... What gauge metal did you use? Stainless?...
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually it's 16 ga aluminum.