The Armour Archive

The fair starts the 12th (Sterling, NY renn fair) and I'm not sure which weekend we're going, but I need it done by then. (Anyone from here going to that fair? Send me a pm if you might want to meet up.) So I was making the shirt out of 16g 5/16 BA rings and I ran out. The sides are not filled in and a large section in the back is missing too. I decided to use a bag of 5/8 (?) Black stainless to fill in the gaps, turns out it only covers 1 side. I'm thinking of adding plates to the other side but I don't know what to make. I want to make something like overlapping plates that move when I bend. I've not done too much of that so I need some help. The span from the right end of the mail to the back is 9" and 10" from top to bottom of gap. I can take pics if needed. Thanks.

Hello,

Your best bet would be to do a search for Persian, Turkish, Indian armour. They used a combination of plates and maille. Its a bit out of my normal interests so I don't have any resources saved, but from a quick search here is some ideas. I have some catalogs with allot more info, and some examples use allot more plates than the pics below.

http://www.trocadero.com/rexrex/items/337853/en1.html
http://www.oriental-arms.co.il/photos.php?id=1674

Hope that helps a bit.

O'Quinn

It helps a bit, that coat is pretty interesting, I may make something like that next time. But I just need a section or articulated plate for the side. Do you know how to make that? Only articulation I've ever done was that spaulder and it's actually connected by mail on the inside.

I work at the Sterling Renaissance festival every year! Are you just making armour to make armour and look "cool" at the fairre? or are you going for a certain persona?

You can use leather straps + rivets for articulation, too. Many period pieces were done this way.

-Donasian.

where are you located?
I have some BA 14 guage 3/8 if you need it.
cross post to theringlord.com and see if there is anyone in the area with some extra rings.

Kasem, cool, which vendor are you? I'm doing it so that I can look a bit cool, I can hardly elsewise wear armor in public haha.

Donasian, I know, but I have no source of leather, I'm just a chainmailler so I just used what I had on hand.

losthelm, I'm in western mass. I was going to order some more wire from TRL but there is not even close to enough time for me to even get it in the mail, and then it takes a while to weave. If you're not planning on ever using those rings, I could probably make a coif with them if there is enough.

Dothacker, welcome and well come to the Archive.

You're going to have to coil and cut your own mail links -- with powerwinding, it's pretty fast, really.

With your own coils made, opening links is extremely fast compared to everything else in mail. Take half your coils, grab the ends of each coil with hands or pliers jaws, and stretch the coil out to 2 1/2 times its original length or a bit less. You need more than twice original length so it's not a nuisance to weave them in, but three times or more is likely to pringle your rings, and some maillers really hate that effect.

The other half of your coils will become your closed links. Right now they are your raw links, once cut into steel Cheerios.

Keep opened links and raw/closed links stored in separate containers, because opened links are incredibly snaggy; you'll be pulling them from the container not by the single link, but by the lump. Tap the lump on your worktable to break it up.

Get 16 gauge galvy wire from a lumberyard or fence supplies store -- somebody who sells it by the pound, in bulk, for people who use it in quantity. You'll go broke trying to buy 100-ft. packets from a hardware store. See if you can score a price of a dollar a pound or so.

The same place can also fix you up with a length of 5/16" diameter steel rod stock -- don't call it dowel, they'll send you to the wood section and wood doesn't work very well for making mail at all -- wooden doweling isn't strong enough.

Thanks for the turorial, but I've been making maille for years. I do my winding on a lathe with a rag in my hand to take the friction off my fingers. I, of course, make my own rods, since I have a lathe (and a milling machine to drill a hole in the side). I bulk order wire from TRL, their wire is not only stronger in galvy form, but they carry many types. I usually order a few lbs of 16g BA and a few lbs of 16g galvy if I have any money left over. Well written tutorial though.

I either work as security or get payed to walk around and scream "god save the queen". What weekend will you be going. I make plate armour and really have no patience for Maille.

Ah! Well, I sit corrected! I was kind of thinking "He looks a little old to be having just this problem with a Renfair..."

Nota Bene: if you get galvy guy wire cables, you get some pretty friggin' hard wire too. I'd wrestle with the stuff again if I found some smaller gauge stuff than the last time. .140" wire makes mighty coarse mail. I'd want to find something made up of wires about .060-.050".

Kasem, haha oh, I see. I am not sure yet, I have to wait for my family to decide. Do you work all of the weekends or just a few? As things stand presently, I am sure my family will spring the date on me just before it happens so if you happen to see a guy in spaulders like in the pic, it's probably me. If not, I'll send you a pm when I know and we'll arrange to meet up.

Red, yeah, I'm 17. School doesn't end until late so I rarely have time to work on armor during summer before the fair. I don't really have a place to armor either. I just try to hammer a bit when nobody is home on my carpet with a rounded end steel rod and a hammer. What does "Nota Bene" mean? Something akin to "Note" I presume. As for cables, my thought would be that the wire is too springy to conform to a coil form if I ever stranded a piece. However, I have never tried so I cannot say.

Mildly educational PM sent.

Yeah, that wire is some of the most brutal I've ever met. It took 14" bolties to cut the links from the coils and the links cut off with a crack! crack! crack! noise. I had to coil it not with a coiling jig but with a lever around a fixed mandrel. Yes, I used eye protection, as this method meant cutting wire into segments, the cut end of the wire segment floating around the mandrel's axis in midair, describing a slowly narrowing helix. Snapback was ferocious, no mere springback about it. You could see the coils shorten by two inches as they spun down, as the lever cranking let the wire end snap free. Good thing I carefully held onto the other end of that lever, hey?

A winding lever for this sort of thing should be hardwood, and you drill a hole through one end to pass the wire through on the way to the mandrel. Lever it around and around the mandrel rod, which is fixed in a vise.

All this wouldn't be quite so extreme with lighter wire strands unlaid from a cable. Haven't found much of that sort of thing. True, I haven't been looking, as I've been getting into riveted with excruciating slowness. Damn I'm lazy...

haha sounds like alot of work compared to annealing the wire first and then hardening it after I've coiled tool steel rod before, very dangerous springback, cut open my hand good.

I can make hand coiling machines easy and from metal. But again, I can do it all on a lathe which has more power than I do. Though, it is nice for other members without such tools so they can read it. I know I would have liked it had I not worked in a machine shop for school.

If you are short for time.
How about getting a side of leather and finishing your breastplate with it.

Get it wet and form it to fit you.
Lace it into your maile.

Sort of a fantasy maile plate leather thing.
Hey after all… It's the Ren Fare.

Do something with that gaunt.

Hal

Heh I keep telling people I have no leather, nor money to buy. PTHaden's idea on irc might be worth a look. Also, to be honest, the gauntlet is Japanese based, but it is worth something to wear at a ren fest. I haven't decided how to attach the bottom yet, I don't have material to finish it in maille as it should be. Maybe a few strings or cords...or something.

I bet the local thrift store, goodwill store or whatever store you would have locally would have leather belts for 25 cents, you could always try that? Then you woudl have strips of leather to articulate metal plates.

O'Quinn

True, but I'm rather partial to fullmetal. I'll keep that in mind for when I do some other type of armor though.

Hey, looks like I might see some of you guys around at the fair, though I don't know what weekend I'll be there though.