The Armour Archive

I am currently trying to make a simple 2 piece helmet top w/a center band.I have one side shaped the way I want it but I cant seem to get the other side to match.I have tried this twice with no sucess.the first try was bad
[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kronos/1stDome4.JPG[/img]
[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kronos/1stDome5.JPG[/img]

what am I doing wrong?is it mt tools?or the idiot using them?
here are a few pics of my tools.


now my other attempt at thei went a little better.both pieces fit together but they are not the shape I wnated.ther are round and not oval.
[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kronos/2ndDome5.JPG[/img]
[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kronos/2ndDome4.JPG[/img]
[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kronos/2ndDome6.JPG[/img]
can you tell me what I am doing wrong?
Kronos

[This message has been edited by Kronos Weretiger (edited 05-27-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Kronos Weretiger (edited 05-27-2003).]

Can someonr PLEASE tell me why my pics never come up when I try to post them??????
Kronos

what do you mean I put the / before img in the []

protocol: [img](image%20address/name)[/img]

yes that id exactly the way i posted it and it dosent work!!!AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!It seems that I have trouble posting pics every time I try and it is just adding to my serious frustration today

You aren't spelling the names of the images right. They *are* case sensitive.

-Donasian.

Here you go:

[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kronos/1stDome4.JPG[/img]

[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kronos/1StDome5.JPG[/img]





[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kronos/2ndDome6.JPG[/img]

[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/kronos/2ndDome4.JPG[/img]

The last pic you tried to put up was the same as 2ndDome6.JPG, so I left it out.

-Donasian.

[This message has been edited by Donasian (edited 05-26-2003).]

Thanks for the help on the pics Donasian.I think I see what I have been doing wrong.well now that you all can see the pics what am I doing wrong with the armour???
Kronos

I personally don't see what is tragically wrong with these helm halves. This sort of stuff happens - you should see my first helm. To save this project and turn it into something useful, allyou have to do is get a suitably wide metal strip to join the two halves together.

Get a nice strip with parallel side. Bash/bend it to the right curve to go over your helm halves. Mark and drill some rivet holes in the strip so that it looks nice and regular. Then, using vice-grips attach the helm halves to the center strip. Drill the rivet holes throught the helm halves, rivet together, put some padding on the inside and a multitude of sins will be hidden.

Your helm will have that "real" look that some people seem to lift their noses at. No one is perfect. The last thing I want is shiny, perfect armour! If it does its job, it is good enough for me.

Cheers,
David

Hmm, the right half seems to be more deeply dished than the left. Did you start with identical pieces of flat metal?

Dishing helmet plates is an art, not a science. There's a lot of trial and error in it (at least in my case, and I've made about 25 of them). You do get better at it with practice.

One thing I'd suggest is that you check the things for fit - maybe a bit of (shudder!) duct tape to hold the halves together and see if your head goes inside comfortably (with an allowance for padding). If it does, maybe you should just go ahead and make a centre band and rivet it all together.

However, if you aren't prepared to settle for "second best", the best thing to do is to try and alter both halves to a shape somewhere in between the two. This takes care, attention, and a lot of swearing. What I do if something like this happens is go off for a while, kick the cat or one of the children, (if you don't have a cat, or any kids, use someone else's) fill up on junk food and TV, and when I feel calmer about it (this can take a LONG time) go back and try again. With a bit of luck you'll now be rational enough not to just throw it at the wall and give up in disgust. Or not.

Don't give up. It does get better.

Yours in sympathy,

Egfroth

Kronos,
why do you want the two halves to touch if you are using an overlaying band down the middle?

I have made four helmets from three piece riveted tops, and not a one has lined up perfectly....but they all look great when fitted and riveted.

As long as your ridge band is wide enough, you can drill holes, temporarily fasten the plates, tweak the plates, drill more holes, trim the "wierd" helm half, tweak, et cetera.

Moreover, Chef de Chambre made a recent posting in which he demonstrated that even later period, highly shaped helmets lack the symmetry we might expect from craftsmen familiar with the armour.

Idëval

The first thing I would recommend is to mark your patterns with the ultra fine tip sharpies instead of the standard fine tip. This will help alleviate the problem of wavering while cutting. I always had a problem of not cutting the inside of the line while using the fine tip but with the ultra fine tip this is hardly a problem.

Another thing that I would do is to clamp together the helm pieces and the pattern with vise grips and hand file the pieces to match each other. I stress doing this with hand files because you can accidently remove too much material very easily with a grinder and ruin both the pattern and the pieces.

Yet another thing is to realize that the human head is not round more egg shaped. The pattern you have is probably shapped like an elongated egg or football. Your dishing looks very consistant which is good but the front 1/3 of your helm looks to be dished too much. From what I was taught, the first 1/3 of the helm is supposed to be more curled than dished the last 3/3 is going to be very deeply dished with the middle 2/3 blending them both together. This makes for a longer front to back than side to side.

Don't be afraid to cut/file/grind/bend your pieces to match.

This is all opinion so take at your own risk.

THanks for all your input.After looking at the pieces today(alot calmer too)I think I am going to make a new 1/2 and see how that goes.I agree that the side I am having problems is dished way to deep.chalk it up to expierence.you learn something new every time you pick up a hammer.thanks again for all the input.
Kronos

use an angle grinder and cut the halves straight and weld them together and bobs your uncle. hope it helps (surprised if it does)