Armour Review - Thaden Armoury
Posted: Thu May 22, 2003 7:54 pm
Hi All,
I just recieved a pair of custom floating couters c 1470-80 from Patrick Thaden, out of hardened and tempered steel.
For those of you who have followed my accumulation of kit necessary for a portrayal of a 15th century gentleman making a profession of arms in Burgundy, circa 1471-77, you will know that I have largely completed my hosting harness, but am working on accumulating and making a light harness for 'half-armed' wear. This kit comprises my chapel de fer and bevor by Mac, a brigandine with eventual sleeves/pauldrons, by me and Sinric, and a pair of demi-cannons of the vambrace, known in the 15th century as 'splints', and eventually a pair of thigh-high riding boots.
I wanted everything as painstakingly accurate with this kit as possible, which means raised portions of harness as appropriate - I also want my own hand in making it. I also want it to be a showcase of tallent for some of the most promising young armourers in the US (it will be seen regularly at the Higgins) - because I have faith in what promises to be a spectacular crop of young tallent out there.
My faith was not misplaced. I had contacted Patrick last Fall, and he worked me into his busy schedule when I was financialy prepared for it. What we initially decided to try was for an exact duplicate of the couters in the Wallace Collection composite A-20, which has a very plain but nice set of floating couters of either Western European or German origin (I suspec the former). Patrick had conveniently planned a trip to Europpe, and a stop at the Wallace. Unfortunaely for our plans, A 20 had been taken off display, and when Patrick later tried to contact the Wallace regarding photographs of the harness, he recieved no reply (it was a busy time of year for armour seminars unfortunately - in fact, the enquerries remain unaswered still). In the end, I gave him the go-ahead to reconstruct what they probably look like from the few photos (of mediocre quality and awkward angle) published, and by looking to similar examples. As the couters will also be used in my rebated steel combat endevours, we choose A 20 as the model as they have a small edge roll. I specified a mirror polish so as to match my hat by Mac, and for ease of maintenence. Also specified were decorative iron grommets ( most floating couters had these so as not to fray the arming points holding them to the elbow or the vambraces - on many extant examples they are missing, but they are equally plentiful an well maintained originals).
Communication was fantastic. The order came up in queue flawlessly. From start to finish they were two weeks in the making, with Patrick apologising for their lateness (I didn't consider them late - almost too early actually). Due to the Post office not being able to locate his mailing address [img]http://www.armourarchive.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] , my payment was two weeks late (I actually had to send out the money order via priority mail TWICE!!), and so delayed delivery.
A little mix-up with UPS, and I have to go get them, instead of finding them on my doorstep when I got home. This entails all of the aggravation involved in this process - and delightfully - none of the difficulties came from Patrick
Patrick Thaddens report card
Customer service 4.0 (A+)
Nailing the shape of the objects 4.0
Cleaness of workmanship 4.0
Attention to detail 4.0
Fit and functionality 4.0
Price 4.0
Just as these were finished up, and Patrick was getting ready to heat-treat, I asked about makers marks, and if he would mark them. He didn't have a historic makers mark, and I am a stickler for detail, so with that gentle nudge, he went out and made himself a very nice looking 'italianate' mark Patricks new mark is a split tailed crosswith a "T" between the legs of the cross.
As I said, there is a crop of promising young armourers working today, and honing their craft and tallents. I fully believe that some of these chaps will someday have their names in the armouring world as commonplace as Hedgecock, Macphereson, Justus, Radford. I also believe strongly that Patrick will be amongst them, principly because he has tallent, and is developing a fine eye, and is doing all the right things to develop that eye.
He makes the effort to go and see the real harness.
He makes the contacts and the efforts to handle real harness
He is collecting the reference library
He has the raw tallent (if you do all these things but lack that, you can only progress so far)
He works very hard at his craft
He works with heat, he raises
He has the humility to see where his work and the originals differ - this last is amongst the most important, because if you think your stuff is exacatly like the real thing, then you can't see where your work differs from the originals, and eventualy you stop training your eye.
It was a pleasure working with Patrick, he did a great job on this commission. In the near future we will be collaborating (me researching, his tallent and hard work and skill) on what should be an interesting project, that will be published.
As a postscript, they even came packed in their own little drawstring bag - an elegant touch.
Photos forthcoming this weekend.
------------------
Bob R.
I just recieved a pair of custom floating couters c 1470-80 from Patrick Thaden, out of hardened and tempered steel.
For those of you who have followed my accumulation of kit necessary for a portrayal of a 15th century gentleman making a profession of arms in Burgundy, circa 1471-77, you will know that I have largely completed my hosting harness, but am working on accumulating and making a light harness for 'half-armed' wear. This kit comprises my chapel de fer and bevor by Mac, a brigandine with eventual sleeves/pauldrons, by me and Sinric, and a pair of demi-cannons of the vambrace, known in the 15th century as 'splints', and eventually a pair of thigh-high riding boots.
I wanted everything as painstakingly accurate with this kit as possible, which means raised portions of harness as appropriate - I also want my own hand in making it. I also want it to be a showcase of tallent for some of the most promising young armourers in the US (it will be seen regularly at the Higgins) - because I have faith in what promises to be a spectacular crop of young tallent out there.
My faith was not misplaced. I had contacted Patrick last Fall, and he worked me into his busy schedule when I was financialy prepared for it. What we initially decided to try was for an exact duplicate of the couters in the Wallace Collection composite A-20, which has a very plain but nice set of floating couters of either Western European or German origin (I suspec the former). Patrick had conveniently planned a trip to Europpe, and a stop at the Wallace. Unfortunaely for our plans, A 20 had been taken off display, and when Patrick later tried to contact the Wallace regarding photographs of the harness, he recieved no reply (it was a busy time of year for armour seminars unfortunately - in fact, the enquerries remain unaswered still). In the end, I gave him the go-ahead to reconstruct what they probably look like from the few photos (of mediocre quality and awkward angle) published, and by looking to similar examples. As the couters will also be used in my rebated steel combat endevours, we choose A 20 as the model as they have a small edge roll. I specified a mirror polish so as to match my hat by Mac, and for ease of maintenence. Also specified were decorative iron grommets ( most floating couters had these so as not to fray the arming points holding them to the elbow or the vambraces - on many extant examples they are missing, but they are equally plentiful an well maintained originals).
Communication was fantastic. The order came up in queue flawlessly. From start to finish they were two weeks in the making, with Patrick apologising for their lateness (I didn't consider them late - almost too early actually). Due to the Post office not being able to locate his mailing address [img]http://www.armourarchive.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] , my payment was two weeks late (I actually had to send out the money order via priority mail TWICE!!), and so delayed delivery.
A little mix-up with UPS, and I have to go get them, instead of finding them on my doorstep when I got home. This entails all of the aggravation involved in this process - and delightfully - none of the difficulties came from Patrick
Patrick Thaddens report card
Customer service 4.0 (A+)
Nailing the shape of the objects 4.0
Cleaness of workmanship 4.0
Attention to detail 4.0
Fit and functionality 4.0
Price 4.0
Just as these were finished up, and Patrick was getting ready to heat-treat, I asked about makers marks, and if he would mark them. He didn't have a historic makers mark, and I am a stickler for detail, so with that gentle nudge, he went out and made himself a very nice looking 'italianate' mark Patricks new mark is a split tailed crosswith a "T" between the legs of the cross.
As I said, there is a crop of promising young armourers working today, and honing their craft and tallents. I fully believe that some of these chaps will someday have their names in the armouring world as commonplace as Hedgecock, Macphereson, Justus, Radford. I also believe strongly that Patrick will be amongst them, principly because he has tallent, and is developing a fine eye, and is doing all the right things to develop that eye.
He makes the effort to go and see the real harness.
He makes the contacts and the efforts to handle real harness
He is collecting the reference library
He has the raw tallent (if you do all these things but lack that, you can only progress so far)
He works very hard at his craft
He works with heat, he raises
He has the humility to see where his work and the originals differ - this last is amongst the most important, because if you think your stuff is exacatly like the real thing, then you can't see where your work differs from the originals, and eventualy you stop training your eye.
It was a pleasure working with Patrick, he did a great job on this commission. In the near future we will be collaborating (me researching, his tallent and hard work and skill) on what should be an interesting project, that will be published.
As a postscript, they even came packed in their own little drawstring bag - an elegant touch.
Photos forthcoming this weekend.
------------------
Bob R.
. Patrick