The Armour Archive

Has anyone made any armor using the scales from the Ring Lord? I'm thinking of using the hardened steel large scales myself, but I'd like to know how well the stainless clad aluminum would hold up to sca combat. Any and all advice would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Nikandros

With SCA hardstick, big scales do more for you than small scales, so get the large kind. SCA scale armor goes up to roughly a palmsbreadth, any dimension. Lamellar, being laced together tightly, is its own beast -- semiflexible. Brigandine runs anywhere from calling card size to 5 x 2 3/8" and greater, depending on era and style.

And a scale shirt will still need the SCA kidney plates installed within.

The weight difference between steel scales and aluminum, while present, is pretty modest in its actual tactical effect unless you have back trouble. A man with bad discs and an iffy spine is better off in a plate breast and back. New fighters, I often notice, make more of the weight of their harness than they really should, believing apparently that either it will make them irredeemably clumsy or quite unable to move crosscountry. Neither is the case, and to cope with the differences between harnois blanc and nudity takes only a bit of training, assuming aerobic conditioning is already well under way.

In a post that came up several months ago, someone did this but stitched the scales to a piece of leather, instead of using the split rings. If you try using the search function you might be able to find it.

Society minimums are untreated 11 oz leather over padding for kidney protection (not rigid as many assume). So I can't see why you would need to add kidney plates if you have padding under the scale.

Bartok

E. Body, Shoulder, and Groin Armor
1. The kidney area and the floating ribs shall be covered with a minimum of heavy leather worn over 1⁄4 inch (6mm) of closed-cell foam or equivalent padding.

Heavy leather: Heavy Leather: stiff, oak-tanned leather nominally 11/64 inch (4.4mm) thick. Often referred to as 11oz. leather.

Rigid material:
a. Steel of no less than 18 gauge, or aluminum of no less than 0.075 inch (1.9mm) .
b. Other metals of sufficient thickness to give similar rigidity to those listed above to include treated steel or aluminum.
c. High-impact-resistant plastics such as ABS or polyethylene of sufficient thickness to give similar rigidity to those listed above.
d. Heavy leather (as defined above) that has been hardened in hot wax, soaked in polyester resin (properly catalyzed), or treated in such a manner as to permanently harden the leather.
e. Two layers of untreated heavy leather.
f. Other materials equivalent to those items listed above (Any armor of unusual construction or material must meet the approval of the Kingdom or Principality Earl Marshal or their designated deputy.)


Two things. First, I believe they have upgraded the standard for "heavy leather" (I recall that I've been often appalled in the past at how light "heavy" leather was in the standards). Second, depending upon the size of the scales, I could see scale meeting the "rigid" standard without much problem.

Either way, I would have to see any particular scale shirt to determine whether it was sufficient in and of itself, but would be more surprised by one that wasn't good enough than by one that was...

New fighters, I often notice, make more of the weight of their harness than they really should

I agree to a point.
I wholeheartedly agree that light harness weight isn't going to offset the effects of poor health. You should at least lift weights regularly and be able to run a mile.

The reason I say this is because if you're young and full of enthusiasm (but not necessarily energy) then you'll get out there and exert yourself like you don't usually, and being that tired makes you miss what's actually happening out there.

You'll get armor bites all over your body, then come off the field and probably start drinking right away, and any lessons you'd have learned are lost at that point. Then you'll think about it later, and remember how tired you were, and think "Hey, I need lighter armor" when the reality is your kit doesn't fit at all and you need to change a bunch of fastenings.

Flash forward five to ten years, and you're not fighting anymore because it just wasn't as fun as it looks, and you never seemed to get good at it, when all you probably needed to do was move that buckle so that it's on the side of your calf instead of the back...

HOWEVER, the weight issue is sometimes very relevant. Particularly if you're talking hand-me-down armor. I remember one set of legs that were floating around our household in the beginning - made of 14 oz leather with 12g galvanized splints and a 14g cop. I also remember my future brother-in-law being the biggest of us and therefore the only one who dared to wear them. They were simply ridiculous overkill.

Of course, when he got them on he declared them crap because - you guessed it - they didn't fit and bit him everywhere.

It's been my experience that, outside of the plastic world, overly heavy armor is often executed poorly. Plastic is different because it can be executed very poorly and still be lightweight.

I think any armorer who knows what he is doing is going to pay attention to the weight issue. That's why you find so many helms which are 12g top and 14g sides - someone sat down and thought "hey, fighters hardly ever get hit in the side of the head, so I'm going to tone that part down and SAVE WEIGHT".

As far as scale... a couple ideas.

I put it in the same camp as maille. IMO It has its uses as-is in the SCA. Those would be aventails, skirts, and places where the armor is probably going to be held away from the body part it's protecting.

If you're talking about doing full-body, I think the scale by itself - particularly the tiny RL stuff - is a bad idea for the places that are supposed to be rigid.

When people wear full-body maille on the field I've seen them go two routes - the more common "put something modern under it" route (I'm finding recently that ABS is really inexpensive and super easy to work with), or the less common "put something period under it" route.

If you sew two layers of canvas together in 1" channels, then pack those channels tight with dryer lint, then that by itself will give you rigid protection (no, really, it will). Depending on how skinny you are, you might get away with 3/4" channels if it has light scale over it.

If you're making scale, it might be possible to triple up the scales so that what looks like three is actually one plate with three dags coming off it. I've seen references to that being done with Roman squamata. If you blow that up to SCA proportions - say 2"x3" scales - that means that you're using effectively 6"x3" plates, meaning the protection would be a lot better.

Ok, a little explanation is in order. I have a heavy leather linothorax I made and wear currently. I'm thinking of making another one with lighter weight leather and using the scales around the body up to about the sternum the way the hoplites wore them. I was mainly concerned with how well the scales would hold up to the pounding and if I would be constantly repairing/replacing them. Thanks for all the replies though.

Nikandros

I made my Lorica Squamatta, Scale Shirt, out of 410 Spring Stainless with a heavy linen backing. I tell you, it works great and my scales are pretty small. I have 1600 scales for me and I am only 5'6", 150 pound guy. What makes scales so effective they are attached to each other either lace or staples creating a rigid defense. The overlap also protects very well. I honestly never liked the design and shape of their scales. I also will say my scales took me a very long time to make, however you are just doing certain areas and not an entire shirt. I would try using a heavy linen linothorax layered with the scales attached. You will be amazed how well linen works as well as how well it moves and breathes compared to leather.

Aedinius