1330's Knight Gaston's sugarloaf & harness progress pict

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:41 pm

You know what is jumping out at me on this one?

The angle of the knee cop. And that is something I have _always_ noticed in effigy vs recreated armor.. is that legs are "slanted" kinda, in real life.. yet when we remake them, we very often make it a straight line.. from the cuisse down the knee to the greave.. and I'm wondering if that doesn't have something to do with why so many people think their legs don't fit, move, or work right, and end up with joint issues in the knees/ankles.

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:14 pm

I think this is the most incredible thing I've ever seen! Your attention to detail is astounding.

Carnifex- · Post by **Carnifex-** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:11 pm

Thanks for the opinion, it sounds pretty conclusive. Keep us posted, the pieces really look fantastic so far.

Chris Gilman · Post by **Chris Gilman** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:22 pm

Thank you all. I will try to post some, how I did things as well. Here is the effigy(s) I combined to give myself a reference of the look I'm going for. The vambraces, I have decided will not be the scale versions but will match the cuisses.

Chris Gilman · Post by **Chris Gilman** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:31 pm

Maeryk wrote:You know what is jumping out at me on this one?

The angle of the knee cop. And that is something I have _always_ noticed in effigy vs recreated armor.. is that legs are "slanted" kinda, in real life.. yet when we remake them, we very often make it a straight line.. from the cuisse down the knee to the greave.. and I'm wondering if that doesn't have something to do with why so many people think their legs don't fit, move, or work right, and end up with joint issues in the knees/ankles.

Yes, I would agree. This is one of the primary skills of any tailor or in this case, armourer. Proper fit. Understanding this in clothes and armour is often underestimated and I think comes from two sources. One: People often make something without really observing (or perhaps understanding) what it really looks like and why.
Second: People often copy, copies without looking at the original.

Tomburr · Post by **Tomburr** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:51 am

The four things that make this suit possibly the coolest armour I've seen around here(and 14th C. isn't my favorite) are thus:

1. The dedication to accurate adaptation from historical resources
2. The attention to detail, because its all a collection of details
3. The use of historical means of kit construction and assembly
4. The lavish, rich appearance of every inch of this kit

This is an ambitious undertaking, Chris, but you make it look easy. You've inspired me to put more polish to my own kit.

Please keep us posted. This is nigh on unbelievably cool.

Donngal · Post by **Donngal** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:37 am

Chris
This stuff is sick.
Absolutely sick.

I look forward to seeing it at Estrella Your display is always one of my highlites.
Thanks for raising the bar on us slackers...lol

Dave

Pitbull Armory · Post by **Pitbull Armory** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:45 am

Hi Chris, Let me just say,...Wow. Your dedication to historical acuracy is inspirational. Those chain legs are without a doubt the neatest looking set ive ever seen. Thanks for the pics and inspiration.

Thank you

Pitbull

talaananthes · Post by **talaananthes** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:34 pm

This is one of the most incredible things I have ever seen.

I am wowed.

I cannot wait to see this completed.

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:28 pm

I just looked through this whole thread; damn that is a bad ass looking suit you are building

jonititan · Post by **jonititan** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:59 am

It is indeed very shiny

Count Johnathan · Post by **Count Johnathan** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:13 pm

I am in awe of this suit construction. Very cool to see the patience of the artist/craftsman, the artistry, and complexity of what would normally be considered "low tech" medieval armor construction.

The dark ages.... right....

Beautiful work as always. Thank you for all the instruction and direction you provide along with your work Chris.

Superior.

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:16 pm

You have to get back on this thing after that Pennsic house is done, Chris! Are you planning on having any more of this ready before summer creeps around? Those integrated legs are astounding. Now, I'm interested why you decided to make the vambraces match the cuisses? It sounds appropriate, but I have to say those scale pieces are very shmexy... What do you plan to do with them?

-Gregory

Kenwrec Wulfe · Post by **Kenwrec Wulfe** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:28 am

Truly inspirational. Wow.

Sjolander · Post by **Sjolander** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:38 pm

I just wet my pants. Damn you!

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:43 am

Sjolander wrote:I just wet my pants. Damn you!

You sure that's peepee?

Chris Gilman · Post by **Chris Gilman** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:40 am

eeeuuuwwww!!!

Thanks guys.
I'm trying to get off my lazy butt and get this finished. I was remaking the knees, the others where a bit too small. I also worked on making sabatons this weekend. I'll try to get them finished up and get some shots posted.

Chris Gilman · Post by **Chris Gilman** » Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:53 pm

The Pennsic house project has slowed this one. But I did get both new knees made and am now working on the sabatons.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:44 am

More pics?

Edward MacTavish · Post by **Edward MacTavish** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:15 am

Very nice work. Will this suit be ready for the CotT this year? Around how many scales did you use for each vambrace and white size scale were they?

Edward

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Thu May 27, 2010 1:46 pm

Chris,

This is one of my favorite threads and it just lights me up every time I look at it. I pick up one more thing each time I view it. I have two questions, if you have time to answer them.

1) Were did you get the maile for the legs?

2) What weight did you use for the boots?

Thank you very much

Horace

Chris Gilman · Post by **Chris Gilman** » Fri May 28, 2010 7:12 am

I bought the mail from Deepeka (India) it was a shirt. As I needed most of a shirts worth of mail, so it didn't seem such a waste to cut up a shirt.
The leather is 3-4 oz "upholstery leather"
I have been side tracked with the Pennsic house project, but I hope to squeeze a little time out to finish the legs and body to have for Pennsic.

Pitbull Armory · Post by **Pitbull Armory** » Fri May 28, 2010 9:26 am

Hi there Chris. Ive never seen mail that fit to the legs like this before. It looks totally amazing and like you said, just like the effigies. The leather work is mind blowing, I cant wait till you get time to post more pics of it. Keep up the great work.

Have a good weekend

Pitbull

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Fri May 28, 2010 10:14 am

Thanks Chris for the information!

-H

Chris Gilman · Post by **Chris Gilman** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:21 pm

OK, I got a little bit done. I planished out the knees and finished them, but now I'm not sure I like the profile.

I've added about 2" to the top of the greaves to make them reach under the cops and I'm patterning the sabatons. I also got all the studs for the cuisses cast in brass. (although, the pewter ones are still just resting in the cuisses in these photos)
I was planning on getting a good amount done this weekend, but I have to go to London for a film project. Good news, I will hopefully meet up with Toby at the Wallace.
Here are some recent pictures:

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:46 pm

Chris, after seeing these in the shop, and looking at the larger cop you've got set up here... I wouldn't worry about the profile. I can see where it may not match up perfectly with the effigy remains that have inspired you, but I don't think that for the amount of work you've put into them (twice) you should rip them apart again. They look great, almost all things considered.

London, 'eh? Lucky dog. Oh well, I'll be in San Francisco! Wait, I already am...

-Gerhard

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:22 pm

That's just damn amazing.

Steve

Eltz-Kempenich · Post by **Eltz-Kempenich** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:59 am

I really wish I could do that.

Utterly amazing.

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:14 am

do you anticipate wearing a shoe inside the cloth/maille chausses, or are they the shoes themselves?

Edit: Nevermind I went back and saw the integral boot.

I would like to try and make a pair of these legs, but I am scared of making the boot. Could you show how to go about it? Do you have pictures of your patterns? I've made a couple of pairs of turn shoes but they were not very good and they did not last - the leather on the heel split very quickly.

Steve

Chris Gilman · Post by **Chris Gilman** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:49 pm

Steve,
I'm not sure what to explain. I made the pattern with the old sock and duct tape method. I then traced out the sole shape and upper shape I wanted and guesstimated the seam alterations to get what I thought I needed.
The one fault I can see with some medieval reproduction shoes is the use of crap leather. I have found it difficult to find really good quality leather here. I have some goat leather from Europe that is fantastic. Very supple, and very strong. Most of the softer; Upholstery/ garment/ chrome tanned leather I find here in the States is â€œbrittle or â€œchemically burntâ€

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:02 pm

What Wilhelm said.

FFFFFFfffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuu....

Gaston, you never cease to amaze me.

I'll bet fighting on the knees wouldn't be too comfy, but as a great knight once said, "Our illustrious chivalric ancestors did not squat like frogs."

bryanrobbins · Post by **bryanrobbins** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:11 pm

.... jesus, am i smoking something? i have never seen such art in my life!!

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:45 pm

Mmmmm, armourcake.

Now I think I will go back in this thread and enjoy another slice!

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:54 pm

I'm not sure what to explain.

I think what I'm confused about is how you stitch the upper to the sole such that when you turn the shoe you end up with the "lip" that runs all around the outside for attaching the maille.

Steve

Gerhard von Liebau · Post by **Gerhard von Liebau** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:18 pm

Steve -SoFC- wrote:
I'm not sure what to explain.
I think what I'm confused about is how you stitch the upper to the sole such that when you turn the shoe you end up with the "lip" that runs all around the outside for attaching the maille.

Steve

He's got a third piece of leather stitched in between the sole and the upper, which forms the lip for the mail. At least that's how I believe he described it, and what it looked like to me!

-Gerhard