I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

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Ulricus von Geusa
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Re: I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

Post by Ulricus von Geusa »

I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for yet, to be honest, Magyar is just one of the possibilities since I'm an archer as well, and prefer Magyar bows. I'd like to be able to bring the two together. What periods are we looking at before they give up lamellar and move to armour similar to the rest of europe, or did they? And did you say they used lamellar for arms and legs as well? What materials would they have used? What about knee and elbow protection? Again, thanks for the info.
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Re: I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

Post by Russ Mitchell »

Knee and elbow stuff would probably have to be hidden. Splints are absolutely acceptable, though you'd want ones that were a touch wider than the straightline ones. For the heyday of that sort of gear, you're looking 8-9th century, before the conquest of the Carpathian basin. At this point they've just barely broken away from the Khazar Khaganate.
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Ulricus von Geusa
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Re: I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

Post by Ulricus von Geusa »

Okay, so by the 11th-13th century what would they have been wearing?

I also found some pictures of this guy, and while he seems to know what he's doing, do you know how accurate this is or what period it would represent if it is?
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Russ Mitchell
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Re: I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

Post by Russ Mitchell »

He's enthusiastic and has excellent physical skills, but has a set of very romantic research ideas. The equipment is shiny but primarily Avar rather than Magyar (would still be usable, but much earlier than what you want).

Okay, 11th to 13th you get a LOT of options, but if you want to stay with the steppe focus, this is the heyday of the Cumans, who both fought the Hungarians and also settled amongst them (integrating with a ton of conflict but eventually very well, to the point that some of them eventually wound up being nobles of various sorts even next door in Austria). I just happen to have a good wallpainting reference for you for gear to play with, look at the guys in the mail with helmets and bows. But everybody in here with the exception of the Ghuzz dudes (beards, no armor) would be usable for you, though drifting 14c for the more knightly guys.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1146882438 ... llPainting#
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Ulricus von Geusa
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Re: I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

Post by Ulricus von Geusa »

That's excellent, I've got a lot to sort through now, I really appreciate it. A couple of final questions. So by the 11th-13th century lamellar has faded from use, and they've moved on to chain? Or is that stylized lamellar in the wall painting?
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Re: I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

Post by Russ Mitchell »

You see a number of varieties in paintings, but the safest bet, so far as I can tell, is that they've moved to a sort of brigandine approach similar to an armored surcoat. So what you're seeing is representation of plates showing under a fabric or light leather shell.

You can, actually, even wear scale or leather if you want... Hungarians provide some of the greatest leeway around for SCA use.
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Ulricus von Geusa
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Re: I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

Post by Ulricus von Geusa »

Okay, and moving back to the 8th to 10th centuries, how would their armour have varied from others, like the mongolians? Sorry for bouncing around so much, I'm just trying to get a feel for the period I'd like to represent.
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Re: I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

Post by Russ Mitchell »

How are you with libraries? There's actually a VERY good article on this period for Hungarians by David Nicolle... I can dig up the title.

Basically, keep the "great moravian" type helmet, and feel free to use splinted arm and leg defenses along with your lamellar, hide the knees and elbows if possible, and feel free to use mail alongside your lamellar (where the Mongols generally wouldn't).
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Ulricus von Geusa
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Re: I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

Post by Ulricus von Geusa »

I'll definitely check it out if you can find the title, Thanks for all the great information.
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Re: I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

Post by Russ Mitchell »

It's "Arms and Armor in Southeast Europe in the second half of the first Millenium," by Gorelik, in Nicolle, David "Companion to Medieval Arms and Armor." Should be able to get it via the library.
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Ulricus von Geusa
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Re: I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

Post by Ulricus von Geusa »

Okay, I've been completely unable to find the book you mentioned, so I have a few more questions for you if you don't mind. What size and shape would their lamellar plates have been? I've also been looking at some byzantine iconography recently, and I really like the look of a kilbanion, specifically this one of St George:
Image

Would something like that be acceptable?
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Zed
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Post by Zed »

Uriel wrote:Have you checked the Silk Road Armoury's website?

http://www.geocities.com/athens/olympus/3505/
Sadly that went down with Geocities going bust, it's partially on the archive:
http://web.archive.org/web/200304101505 ... page1.html

But it seemed to be well researched for people intersted in steppe armour.
I based my SCA armour off western-steppe post-migration era 1300s armour (obviously with all the extras needed for SCA combat), and fairly generic to what would be available to Mongols auxiliaries.
I'll try to dig up a better photo...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/onemillion/7068942539/
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Re: I wanna be a STEPPES WARRIOR

Post by rjdale »

Magyar Nerd here. I reregistered after a decade off, and started collected my kit again. I will be running a Magyar of the Carpathian Basin, Pre Conversion for SCA combat. I am going to cheat with "Tombstone lamellar" to get an impression, and wear a kaftan with a Pecsi style helmet with a chainmail drape. I will be hiding by legs under a system of leggings and the boots I am currently making. The elbows will go under the caftan but eh vambraces will go over. I will be using a round or a teardrop, although the round is more authentic until around the time we start fighting the Bulgarians and or Ottonian forces (what you mean lost?, we just retired!)

As for the archery side I am going to make that a a thing for my soft kit. I was raised on recurves and I am hoping to get one for the bow quiver. I am gathering the parts for my tarsoly quiver and belt mounts now. I am a weirdo who won't weird a sword until knighted so as a small side arm I am going to carry a small peace tied axe as a bauble and an eating knife.

I am curious if beyond the Avar Lamellar helmets and all the helmets that are magically swept into the "Birka" category has anyone seen any gravegood based recreations specific to Migration era Magyar? I like the Pecsi but Archeology being the nationalist hobby it is, we get a lot of Magyar material culture swept into other people's identity. I would love something that is stamped MAGYAR, not Vlach, or Dacian. But Magyar.
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