Moray Scot, 1040

[armourboy]

I am wanting to put together a kit for a Scottish warrior who may have served with his kinsman - Mormaer (Earl) - MacBeth of Morayshire in Scotland in 1040AD. This MacBeth is the guy who Shakespeare paints such a black impression of in his infamous "Scottish tragedy" and would later became king of Scotland in 1040AD.

This is my complete guess but ... I think that the arms, armour, softkit and weaponry of a Scottish warrior of Morayshire, would not have differed very much (but for only minor cosmetic regional details) from that of their English cousins serving under King Edward the Confessor, but I really don't know for sure and would be very grateful if I could gain the help from some of the knowledgeable on this forum.

Would I be "far from the mark" by suggesting that he may have been armoured as follows:

Conical Spanganhelm (with or without nasal);
Long maille hauberk (with or without mail hood);
Quilted cotton or leather gambeson;
Loose cotton shirt;
Single-legged hose or breeches;
11th century leather shoes or no shoes whatsoever(?)

Large round wooden shield made of planks with a central steel boss;
Long spear;
Irish or Viking type hilted single handed sword or was there a particular type of scottish sword perhaps (or maybe a fighting axe instead);

Many thanks in advance for any/all help please. I really want to make this happen for my arms and armour presentations.

Regards
Stuart aka armourboy

[RandallMoffett]

Maybe. See Edward the Confessor was moving loads of his buddies from Normandy into England. Normans were having an impact on their style of warfare- at least according to the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle. Likely in mounted warfare as Harold Godwinson appears in on campaign along the Welsh border to be on horse near two decades before Hastings. David I of Scotland does something alike during his reign.

So as far as gear goes that is OK to me but I'd assume they would be on foot. I remember something about the Scot using forms of light cavalry in this period but it was more similar to their use in the wars of independance- rapid movement but dismount before battle.


RPM

[Peikko]

...Conical Spanganhelm (with or without nasal);
Long maille hauberk (with or without mail hood);
Quilted cotton or leather gambeson;
Loose cotton shirt;
Single-legged hose or breeches;
11th century leather shoes or no shoes whatsoever(?)

Large round wooden shield made of planks with a central steel boss;
Long spear;
Irish or Viking type hilted single handed sword or was there a particular type of scottish sword perhaps (or maybe a fighting axe instead);
...

Looks ok to me, but with these changes:
Long maille hauberk (without mail hood), wool tunic (there is scant evidence for gambesons at this period), Linen tunic, braes, and either split hose or winningas, yes to shoes (you are portraying someone of enough wealth to afford armour, so a lack of shoes would seem at odds with this).

In short in the 1040's I think Ireland and Scandinavia had as much influence on the Scots as did England.

[RandallMoffett]

Good catch I missed the aketon.

I'd be careful with how much direct influence who had as it is mostly regional. It might be good to get a map showing the areas of their influence. The areas of Norse influence are fairly small, islands and the SW. The Irish tend to be mostly in similar areas minus the northern islands. Indirectly it is much harder as the Scots were fighting the AS English and the Viking kingdom of Yorvik just to the south for some time during the previous few centuries and would have had trade relations with them as well.

RPM

[armourboy]

Many thanks indeed Randall and Johann, some excellent pointers for me to consider there.

Now, could any of you knowledgable lot point me in the direction of suppliers of good Scottish weaponry that ties into this time-period of 1040AD. In particular I am thinking of spearheads, sword, dagger, and/or axe.

Or are there any good images of extant Scottish weapons (or weapon parts from this period?)

Lastly, was there any type of Scottish clan shield heraldry used at this time-period, or would they have used purely some form of geometric shield art, or any form of shield painting for that matter?

Many thanks in advance for any help.

[armourboy]

OK, a hauberk without integral mail hood for a Scottish warrior in 1040AD seems the way to go, but I have no idea what type of links to go for in this time-period - round, flat, butted, riveted, alternate butted and riveted, link diametre size? Sleeve length?

Could somebody help me please?

I would be very grateful for any help.

[Peikko]

Many thanks indeed Randall and Johann, some excellent pointers for me to consider there.

Now, could any of you knowledgable lot point me in the direction of suppliers of good Scottish weaponry that ties into this time-period of 1040AD. In particular I am thinking of spearheads, sword, dagger, and/or axe.

Or are there any good images of extant Scottish weapons (or weapon parts from this period?)

Lastly, was there any type of Scottish clan shield heraldry used at this time-period, or would they have used purely some form of geometric shield art, or any form of shield painting for that matter?

Many thanks in advance for any help.

As far as I know there isn't really a uniquely Scottish style at this period in time...I'd second Randall's suggestion of mapping out what regional influences you are likely to have.

[Peikko]

OK, a hauberk without integral mail hood for a Scottish warrior in 1040AD seems the way to go, but I have no idea what type of links to go for in this time-period - round, flat, butted, riveted, alternate butted and riveted, link diametre size? Sleeve length?

Could somebody help me please?

I would be very grateful for any help.

This is outside of my knowledge...I would suggest looking at these folks, they usually have great info: http://www.regia.org/listings.htm
http://www.vikingsonline.org.uk/resourc ... /index.htm

[RandallMoffett]

I think they used solid mixed with riveted links and wedge rivets.

RPM

[Owyn]

I think JohannM's comments are spot on. The only place I disagree is regarding the gambeson/aketon; I feel that there's enough evidence of them to warrant the inclusion if you want one, although that's certainly debatable.

Definitely shoes. Mail was expensive. People with mail had the money for shoes.

[armourboy]

Many thanks all for the information and I will certainly check out that Regia website

[Peikko]

I think JohannM's comments are spot on. The only place I disagree is regarding the gambeson/aketon; I feel that there's enough evidence of them to warrant the inclusion if you want one, although that's certainly debatable.

Definitely shoes. Mail was expensive. People with mail had the money for shoes.

Owyn, I agree with you about the gambeson issue. Common sense says that there could be padded garments at the time, but my default LH position is that if you can't prove it, it shouldn't be displayed to the public. However, padded defenses are wicked popular in the region, so who knows. Stuart, if you do go with a gambeson, be careful around the MOP's and it would most likely be of a simple "t-tunic" design.

[armourboy]

Noted Johann, I'll go with that advice - thanks.

Owyn, many thanks for your imput also

[Peikko]

Good luck...let us know how this turns out.

[armourboy]

Thanks - will do.

[Iain mac Gillean]

Any updates? Curious to see how it goes

[armourboy]

Greetings Iohne

Many thanks for your interest

Well, so far I have a lovely sword, scabbard & belt combination coming my way, an embroided (cuffed) tunic also and a spangenhelm on order.

Here briefly are the details. The sword combo I went for was a fine, early Del tin, Brazil nut pommeled, type X bladed sword with a custom made scabbard and belt by armourer - Peter Fuller of Medieval Reproductions. This was Peter's own sword. I figured that this type of sword began as a late Viking design, so I was safe enough to go for it. Peter also had a woolen tunic with embroided cuffs and collar, (which again seemed safe enough to go with).

Finally, I decided to ask the very talented, Polish armourer - Patryk Nieczarowski if he could make me a nice, nasal spangenhelm, with a hand hammered - raised surface, the nasal to be riveted to the front of the helmet and Patryk is (hopefully) available to begin work on this helmet mid September I am going for the design on the right of the photo as you look at it.

My money is all spent for the timebeing, but eventually I hope to acquire a hauberk, winningas, and a nice round shield with a simple painted red canvas cover over the wood (I am told by an experience source that shield heraldry even simple geometric designs is out for 1040 - bugger!)

I must admit, that I am somewhat 'out of my depth' with this particular project as it is not my usual timeline and my knowledge is very limited, but I am having great fun trying something new

Here is a pic of the sword & scabbard and another pic of the helmet type I will be getting.

Regards
Stuart
aka "armourboy"

[Peikko]

so far so good mate!

[olaf haraldson]

Can we revisit this? We have a local guy who is thinking of going this route... any newer or updated sources?