Czech Knight 1320.

[Hynek]

I'd like to know what the appearance would be of an early 14th century Czech Knight.

[fghthty545y]

They would have probably looked like a knight of the same period from the Kingdom of Poland or the Holy Roman Empire.
These are a couple effigy images I found on Effigies & Brasses that would be relevent, just to get a general idea. ( 1301 and 1338 respectively.)

[Rudolph]

That's a similar area to what I have been researching (1310-20 Nitrian). I haven't found much specific to the area with regard to armor. Prague and Bohemia was under the rule of John of Luxembourg at that time, and had a lot of trade going on from east and west, but what I have seen seems to be heavily Germanic. I would also look towards Polish and Hungarian effigies for inspiration.

One of my favorites ( I made a copy of the shynbalds in 1050 for my kit):


The effigy in stone (from E&B website):

[Egfroth]

Though the Czechs and the Hungarians may have had little in common, the Hungarian Chronicum Pictum which might be of help.

[Galfrid atte grene]

There is also the Velislavova Bible from the Czech Republic, dated 1325-1349 (alternately known as the Velislai Biblia Picta).

[AwP]

I would also look towards Polish and Hungarian effigies for inspiration.

My understanding is that the Poles basically looked German at that time too.

[Jan]

Well, by that time the Silesian duchies were moving more and more towards the Bohemian Crown. The influx of Germans since before the Mongol incursions had led to a number of towns and cities being "incorporated in the German fashion" and, as previously noted that portion of Poland especially was quite Germanisized. For example, in the Manase Codex, the person noted as "Henry of Breslau", was known at the time as "Henryk Probus" from Wroclaw. That changes the further east you go, though.

To the matter at hand, though, the ties between the Czech/Bohemian lands and the HRE were fairly strong, so I would lean towards German influences.

[VikingofKiev]

As was said above - German fashion and influence was the strongest. So the same armour was mostly used. But, as the Chekh lands were somewhat far away from the centers of armour production some old fashioned ways of armouring were used - such as frequent use of mailles (it was much more spread then in the rest of Europe), maille gloves, quite udeveloped older versions of joint armour pieces - elbows, knees and so on were used as well.
But in all, the armour and weapon was mostly German.

There is a unique historical evidence from Chekhia of what is almost a SCA-legal bargrill, this is a depiction of a knight on the Trebon Altarpiece, 1380s. It is unknown in the rest of Europe and is considered to be very rare for Chechia.

[img]http://www.wga.hu/art/m/master/trebon/resurrec.jpg[/img]

[Mikael d'Armstreet]

Looks very interesting, I never seen bargrills without a frame before. Hope it's not painters joke and it really existed. Does anyone have links to sources about similar bar-grills?

[VikingofKiev]

(this is actually an offtopic)

Surprisingly, but here is one more picture of a frameless bargrill:

15c.


and one more framed one:
1450.


I though unfortunately don't know where these pics are from.

[Adam Bohnstengel]

I was directed here from the "I wanna be a.........." thread.

I wanna be a knight or wealthy man at arms from Bohemia around 1320-1350. I'm going to go ahead and assume that Bohemian = Germany for this since Bohemia is modern day western Czech Republic and southern Germany.

For armor, I'm thinking of basing it off of Otto von Orlamunde (dead in ~1340). That will be a coat of plates with chains and spaulders, mail hauberk, splinted vambraces and rebraces, floating elbow COP (?), Wisby style gauntlets, splinted cuisses and greaves, floating knee COP (?), a gambeson, and a bascinet. I don't know yet if I will just wear the bascinet, add a klapvisor, or get a kettle hat or great helm to go over it. Suggestions on what would look the best or be the most accurate? Here is Otto and a drawing of him (I think it's him) as he may have looked not dead. Good look, yes?


Then there's the weapons which I would carry. I LOVE type XIIa swords, and the wife has agreed to open the purse for me to get a custom one made. Here is what I have so far: a type 6 guard, a type J pommel, flared shoulders on the blade, and an overall length of about 50 inches. I'm stuck on what to do with the pommel. I don't think the Iron Cross is period correct, but I don't really know what else to put there except a plain cross. I don't think that would look as good though. Any suggestions for this? A different style cross or an emblem/badge of some sort? The writing on the blade reads "AD MAIUS BONUM" and (according to Google translate) says "for the greater good". Latin buffs, is this correct? Is there a more correct way to write that?

I'm a horrible drawer, but here's a decent idea of what I want. At least it's to scale, right?


Besides a dagger, what other weapons and equipment might I need to carry? A mace or something? Maybe a pole arm? I love me some halberds!

For soft kit, I really have no idea, and have not even looked into it yet. I will need something for me and something for my wife. Any suggestions? She won't be happy with a nun look, she'll want some boobage out there.

Overall, am I on the right track? All suggestions and comments are welcome!

Thanks,
Adam

[Adam Bohnstengel]

No opinions or thoughts?

[Rudolph]

Can't help too much with the sword, but for that pic, I think you are leaning more towards mid 14th. It's a cool look for sure, and one of the Priory brothers fights in a similar kit.

http://www.stcolin.com/breathren/Friedrich.php

As for a helm... I have been a fan of Kettles ever since I got mine, and they do stretch over a large time frame. IMO the best fighting hat out there for SCA. This was my kit back a few years ago. I've since added a Master Knutt hauberk, splinted vambraces (a bit later than my 1415-20 timeline), shynbalds, ailettes, and some good gauntlets from Drogo the Clueless.

[Ernst]

There are two manuscripts in the Czech NK which might be of help:
The Dalmil Chronicle, NK XII.E.17 of 1330-1340, from northern Italy or Bohemia:

http://www.manuscriptorium.com/apps/mai ... 30&client=

NK XII.E.17 fo11v.jpg (95.84 KiB) Viewed 1144 times

The second is the Velislavova Picture Bible (the manuscriptorium site has more & better pics than the few previously provided), NK XXIII.C.124 of c. 1340.

http://www.manuscriptorium.com/apps/mai ... 48&client=

The Dalmil has excellent examples of early bascinet visors and rigid gorgets, while the Picture Bible shows some rare riveted bascinets, "phrygian" bascinets, and late use of kite shields.

[Ernst]

The Book of Christ's Passion, NK XIV.A.17, 1313-1321, is beautifully illustrated, but contains little in the way of martial images outside of a few shields and this small St. George on folio 3v.

http://www.manuscriptorium.com/apps/mai ... 69&client=

[James B.]

I was directed here from the "I wanna be a.........." thread.

I wanna be a knight or wealthy man at arms from Bohemia around 1320-1350. I'm going to go ahead and assume that Bohemian = Germany for this since Bohemia is modern day western Czech Republic and southern Germany.

For armor, I'm thinking of basing it off of Otto von Orlamunde (dead in ~1340). That will be a coat of plates with chains and spaulders, mail hauberk, splinted vambraces and rebraces, floating elbow COP (?), Wisby style gauntlets, splinted cuisses and greaves, floating knee COP (?), a gambeson, and a bascinet. I don't know yet if I will just wear the bascinet, add a klapvisor, or get a kettle hat or great helm to go over it. Suggestions on what would look the best or be the most accurate? Here is Otto and a drawing of him (I think it's him) as he may have looked not dead. Good look, yes?

This look does not come about until the 1340s I am afraid. In the 20s you have mostly maille maybe a armored surcoat, frontal greaves, and you might find obscure gauntlets in some European images but that is it. No splint armor yet.

I don't think you see bascinets that early, more likely you get a half helm over or under the maille coif with a great helm, a sugar loaf, or a kettle hat. Bascinet might start coming in in the late 30s, they are in lots of 1340s art.

The 1330/1340s are called the transitional era for a reason; its the period between maille and full harness. You cannot use images from that era to talk about the 20s, the armor advances too much and styles don't overlap.

[Ernst]

I don't think you see bascinets that early, more likely you get a half helm over or under the maille coif with a great helm, a sugar loaf, or a kettle hat. Bascinet might start coming in in the late 30s, they are in lots of 1340s art.

Bascinets can be found in European artwork in the 1320s, even visored examples. I don't know of any specific Czech sources for that time frame though. Most early bascinets have very rounded skulls--effectively a cervelliere with added occipital coverage. Here's some examples in the French Life of St. Denis with a dated inscription noting its presentation in 1317.
http://visualiseur.bnf.fr/ConsulterElem ... =1&Param=C
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/vita-et ... 2091/1036/

Admittedly, mail coifs, cervellieres, kettle hats, and sugarloaf helms are more common elsewhere in Europe in the 1320s.

[James B.]

I stand corrected on bascinets; but your images hits all the other points I made, some body armor over maille, greaves, gauntlets, no limb armor on the arms other than maille.

[Ernst]

Agreed James. Poleyns seem to be common if not used by the majority by 1300. I just finished going through a French Manuscript dated from 1275-1300: 160 armor images, and only one miniature showing couters on the elbows. The Velislavova Bible, though later than 1320, shows dish-shaped plates on the front of the knee, and maybe some gamboissed cuisses, but otherwise it's all mail. It seems the Czechs were somewhat more lightly armed than contemporary Englishmen or French knights. One peculiar feature seen in the Velislavova is the continued use of Byzantine "kite" shields alongside the more common "heaters".

[James B.]

Oh yes forgot poleyns and gambosed cuisses; certainly common enough in that era and even a bit before.