Polish Hussar, 1570

[Sieg]

I want to be a Polish Hussar at the beginning of the "golden age" (1570 or so)

[Jan]

Wow...okay...

I would start with "Gods Playground" and "The Polish Way" (appropriate chapters, of course) for background, and there are a few illustrations, though probably not helpful to you.

Then I would read "The Trilogy" ("With Fire and Sword", "The Deluge" and "Fire on the Steppe") for mindset. Yes, these books portray the years well into, to past, "the Golden Age" but I still believe them to be useful.

Osprey (yea, I know) has two books on this era that I would pick up for some of the illustrations (the originals, not the artist's interpretations) but more importantly for the bibliography - then you can do your own research.

Then, of course, there's always these guys: http://www.polishhussarsupply.com/ :)

Unfortunately, short of going to the Military Museum in Warsaw there's not a lot of first hand stuff to be found. On the other hand, I would browse Polish Museum websites - especially the one above - and see if you can write to them and ask some direct questions.

Good luck

[SirCathal]

Take your checkbook over to windrose armory ... and make sure there is lots of money in the account ... :)

[Cristoval Ramirez]

From what I've read (and as I claim no sources you may want to take what I say with a grain of salt) at this point of time there were two main fashion factions in Poland. There were the Nationalists who believed that Poland should rediscover its own identity, who seem to take alot of fashion inspiration from Hungary and there were the others who took there inspiration from Germany (like so many in this period). The Nationalists are the most interesting but if you ever get bored or want to something more standard 16th century European then you aren't out of place looking at German clothing and armour.

A good start for soft kit is the reconstructing history patterns for Zupan and Delia. The others don't really come into fashion until the 17th century. http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/pr ... 01-zupan-1

As far as armour goes you will want a zischagge or lobster tail pot helm. The armour is a layered centre crease cuirass.
[img]http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... ssar11.jpg[/img]

A couple of pics of some members of our household.
[img]http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... 2325_n.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd4 ... 3951_n.jpg[/img]

[Hrolfr]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zaglobast ... =182550148

Don't get too lost there :)

[Zygmunt Nadratowski]

As soon as I get my website back up, here's the URL:

<a href="http://www.plcommonwealth.org">The Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth</a>.


If you can't wait, PM me and I'll send the info. :)

[sha-ul]

As far as armour goes you will want a zischagge or lobster tail pot helm. The armour is a layered centre crease cuirass.


A couple of pics of some members of our household.

trying to figure out why images are not showing..... it appears that for some reason the BBCODE& smilies are turned off for this thread.



OH JT...

Edit to check coding, BBC now works!!!!!!!!

[Hrolfr]

[quote="Zygmunt Nadratowski"]As soon as I get my website back up, here's the URL:

<a href="http://www.plcommonwealth.org">The Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth</a>.


If you can't wait, PM me and I'll send the info. :)[/quote]

I can attest to Master Ziggy's knowledge.

[Malina]

I am bumping this because I too, want to be a Hussar!

[Effingham]

There are worse things to want to be.

[herrhauptmann]

Can anyone explain how it is fighting the hussar shield? Does the asymmetry make it a difficult transition?
I'm used to fighting with an aluminum windrose heater (#3). But I've got a curved birch blank I've been itching to cut into that shape.

Also:
Currently slowly in the process of making a hardened leather breastplate (similar to one sold by polish hussar supply). To go with that, I'd like to have a linen zupon to act as a gambeson. Does anyone know if the shoulders are attached to the armor, or tied to the zupan?
Right now a lot of thought is going into the idea of incorporating a lot of hidden armor into the zupan (knees, thighs, elbows, shoulders) and some sort of shin protection beyond the yellow boots.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Edit: Updated Photo

[Cristoval Ramirez]

Drool...

[Ironbadger]

As far as I have been able to tell by looking at many,many museum collections- the hussars fastened the spalders directly to the gorget- which was worn over the breastplate instead of under in the western european fashion.

A peculiarity of hussar spalders that I have seen, is many seem to be cut in a similar shape to western ones, (with more decorative scalloping and brasswork,) and add a small hemispherical plate, riveted to the front edge to cover the armpit.
I was able to tell this mostly from one example where a rivet is missing, and the plate sags down.

http://museum.velizariy.kiev.ua/poland/ ... mvp034.jpg

I have seen artwork where the drooping plate was drawn in because they artist did not realize it wasn't supposed to be that way....

It looks to me it would be easy to make a set of these spalders by adapting existing patterns for things like the 14th century Robert Swinbourne harness from Historical research press- something I think I will try as an experiment when I get some time.

The gorgets seem to be more or less the same as western gorgets of the period, with different decorative elements, so no real problem in making one.

The one thing I am trying to find, is internal photos of a cuirraisse to confirm if my memory of the articulation is accurate.
(I remember seeing a photo of one a long time ago, where those large rivet heads along both sides are pivot points- and the rest are sliding rivets that allow the entire thing to move up and down, without articulation leathers.)

In the end I might use leathers instead, but I am intrigued by the idea of an articulated anime cuirraisse that uses only sliding rivets...IF I can find proof that my memory is not playing tricks on me!

-Badger-

Does anyone know if the shoulders are attached to the armor, or tied to the zupan?
Right now a lot of thought is going into the idea of incorporating a lot of hidden armor into the zupan (knees, thighs, elbows, shoulders) and some sort of shin protection beyond the yellow boots.

[Effingham]

Do. Want.

[herrhauptmann]

Did you make that?
If not, where did you find it?

[Thomas MacFinn]

Did you make that?
If not, where did you find it?

I made that, with more than a little help from Hessen Ironworks.

http://foxknife.com/store/index.php/set ... r-set.html

[Malina]

I own that saber, and gifted it to my husband. It is lovely, and wicked. <3<3

[Thomas MacFinn]

http://foxknife.com/shop/hardware/sets/hussar-set.html

[Joshua S]

I can also say I would love to do a Polish Hussar persona, in the same exact year 1570.

This thread was very helpful and I appreciate.

Thank you everyone.

[Ironbadger]

Articulation of a hussar breastplate-
Two useful videos showing the movement range.

-Badger-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL45r2AE ... r_embedded\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=ULoL4 ... =endscreen

[Hrolfr]

I saw something similar to this with brass rosettes.

I would love to get a Hussar kit for tournies.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Hrolfr, do you know if that particular breastplate articulates? It reminds me a lot of some later period pikeman thigh plates that had false lames shaped from a single unbroken piece of metal.

[Riejckaert]

Been working on this kit for several years now. According to museum pieces I have seen the articulation in the chest plate on the lower part were hinged rivets with leather straps holding things in place on the front, seen one most commonly and have seen two in several pieces.

To get really blingy, you need to go into the extremes of SCA time period if you are a part of that organization. It has come to my attention that the SCA time frame has changed and is now up to the 1650s. This is excellet for us since our armor was less than cool looking in the 1570s being pretty much a helm and chest plate. In the 1630s our armor really comes into its own adding the decorative shoulders and all the cool bling. In addition we gotten rid of the silly shield by then. (if I want to go with a shield I play my Greek persona).

Leg plates seem to be articulated lames, similar to what Thomas just mentioned except the were actually articulated. But usage on these seems to have not been universal. Some suits had it and some did not. I have not seen any pics of the full blown leg encasing legs popular farther West. For SCA combat you will probably like to have them along with winged knees.

The wings on the helm thing was a Victorian add-on. I havent seen anything until very late period that has wings added to helms. Kinda of like so-called horns on viking helms, thats something else to get hit and wrench the head around with. I have seen them on late period helms, but by then the Hussars were pretty much obsolete and the helm was likely a parade helm and not used for actual combat.

Yellow boots- Polish Hussar Supply has them, the price was atrocious when I was buying them so I cheated and went with a civil war recreation company and they made them for about $300 cheaper. Now PHS is selling them for about $400 cheaper than what they were selling them for. Be prepared for snarky comments and many "WTF?s" about the boots. I talked to a guy at Gulf Wars last year and I believe he said he got his from PHS and of course there are so few of us in the SCA, we tend to talk gear and suppliers more than any other persona I have noticed. He asked me about my boots and I mentioned they were the most uncomfortable boots I have ever worn, he laughed and said the same thing about his. Maybe its the yellow.

For SCAers in warmer climes, have an alternate persona from a warmer climate. Polish garb is probably the most cool looking garb in the SCA with all its furs and boots and such. It is also the hottest garb in the game. If you wear it above 65 degrees authentically you will be hurting. I have a wolf skin hat, a big fur cloak, the wool zupan, pants, boots and I cheat and wear and underarmor shirt and I need a steady supply of cool drinks. Benefit of it is on cold nights while everyone else shivers, you are nice and comfortable.

My alt persona for normal FL weather is Roman/Greek, much much cooler and more comfortable, and much cheaper garb than Polish.

[Antonio]

I'm afraid the timeframe of the SCA is the other way around. Once in the distant past, the cut off was 1650. It's 1600 now.

[RandallMoffett]

On the website it does say pre-17th century.... no mention of a start date from what I am seeing. Interesting.

[Effingham]

I'm afraid the timeframe of the SCA is the other way around. Once in the distant past, the cut off was 1650. It's 1600 now.

Despite what people may "think" they remember, it has always been (since official documents came out around AS 2) 1600. It has NEVER been 1650.

Now, there was a heraldic grey-zone that allowed name registrations for names first documented up to 1650 (on the assumption that the name might appear several years after the person was born) but that has nothing to do with anything else.

[Antonio]

I stand corrected, Effingham. I did say 'Distant' But in anycase, not now

The start date is... interesting. Technically there is no official start date. But it also does say 'medieval and renaissance' for what we do. So. If you can define when 'medieval' starts, you've got a start date....

[Hrolfr]

Hrolfr, do you know if that particular breastplate articulates? It reminds me a lot of some later period pikeman thigh plates that had false lames shaped from a single unbroken piece of metal.

The one I saw was not articulated (it was a photo, I'll try to contact the owner of the book and get the neccisary info and post it).

[Petranella]

Armour of the palace in Podhorce (Zbroje z pałacu w Podhorcach) 978-83-937701-1-3 is am amazing book. It has full page full color pics of 15 different sets of armour with inside, outside, front back and top down views of all of them. The detail is exquisite.

[Henrik Granlid]

Would the Karacena Scale armour be in period for the sca or is it simply too late? I have a new player looking for "scale body + metal limbs" and the Karacena looks like a great compromise

[Riejckaert]

Scale has been used since before Roman times in one form or another. You might ask the guy at Polish Hussar Supply, he is pretty knowledgeable about the lesser known types of troops in that area.

Knowing this page isnt well monitored I will post this question elsewhere as well but:

Does anyone know if there is any extant pieces of armor, pictures, descriptions etc of Hussar armor ever being blackened to fight rust? My armorer and I both find it weird that not only being neighbors but rolling off of the German Gothic armor age where practically everything was blackened to fight off rust that the hussars would not have done the same thing(plus it looks blingier with brass).

[Donngal]

my old Hussar kit

I still use it on occasion, gonna make some up grades

Donngal

[SergeiBezrukov]

Hi all,
New member, old SCA player getting back into things. I am looking for suggestions for SCA legal legs for a Polish Hussar and suggestions for good bazubands. Anyone have any armorers of these things they like? I have found a few places online but am frugal and want to get the most out of my meager budget. I have considered doing plastic legs with steel knees under a Polish zupan fighting coat. Any other ideas?

I made my own breastplate and wings years ago and am trying to get them back into shape. I need to get me back into shape too, lol.

Any help would be appreciated,
Sergei

[Donngal]

Leather legs aluminum cop hidden under
Your pants