German Knight 1400

[ChristophH]

I want to be a German Man at Arms to a lord near Heidelberg, Germany.

Class: Middle to upper class
Time period: 1380-1420

Would like advice on gauntlets, finger vs mitten, which was more popular for a German Man at Arms for the time period. I have looked at the German Man at Arms Thread that is in the index and have put the books listed on my to research list. I have taken a look at http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armou ... figies.htm so I have a rough idea of what I need and from that it looks like I would need to go earlier rather than later to avoid large shoulder protection and sabatons?

Here is what I have currently,

Leather breast/back plate
SS Legs with 3/4 protection around the leg(inner thigh/part of the back of leg is exposed)
Aluminum arms with brass trim
MS Gorget
Lobster tail full gauntlets
MS Half Gauntlets
Helmet has been replaced with a different one, which I do not yet have a picture of yet.

From what I have read here on the AA and elsewhere,

I would go with
a partial to full breastplate
gorget would be ok
arms would be ok
legs would need lower leg and full wrap around protection
gauntlets would need to be replaced with?
large heater shield would be phased out

resizeddown1.jpg (94.65 KiB) Viewed 2797 times

[MJBlazek]

I had to expand the time frame a bit, but here is what I found on manuscriptminiatures.com

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/ ... ew=gallery

The legs and arms you have seem to be a good start. You could do wonders buy getting some for of fitted jupon over your torso.
Your biggest hurdle right now is the helmet.
You could make a sort of visored bascinet if you replaced the bar grill with a lifting visor. Barring that going to a flatter grill with some form of aventail.

If you wanted to go wild, throw a chain shirt over the breastplate under the jupon.
Add greaves, tighter bottomed pants and turnshoes.

If you want to go CRAZY... sabatons

[ChristophH]

Thank you for the assistance, MJBlazek. Do you have any recommendations on the pants as I have found the tighter fitting ones tend to rip. What would you recommend under the breastplate, a linen shirt or something along those lines?

The helmet has been replaced since due to some very nice benefactors. Unfortunately, it was damaged in my accident and is being evaluated for repair. This is the helmet before it was damaged.

Based on the pictures, I should start hunting down an aventail. I have noticed some of the legs made by the armorers here with full leg protection as in the pictures. Some of the pictures have entire arm protection with a different style and some have arms similar to mine. I also noticed that some of the pictures have leg protection similar to mine as well. Regarding the shoes, well, I am going for more time period looking shoes, perhaps covers before I try out full period shoes lol.

We use the big white helm for newbies starting out that have a bigger noggin.

Edit: Added more information regarding pictures vs my kit

[MJBlazek]

Christoph,
Wnated to let you know, I have not been ignoring this. Just forming my thoughts, and putting some things together. Also trygin to tfind the time to sit down and post it.
I'll try to respond this weekend.

[ChristophH]

It's alright; I know these things take time.

[MJBlazek]

OK.
Let's start with the helmet, because I think this is going to be your biggest obstacle.

It is too round to be considered as a bascinet. You'll see from a number of the illustrations that bascinets have a more pointed top to them.
You might however be able to get away with disguising it to look like a cervelliere. Like this from White Mountain Armoury:

They were a simple precursor to the Bascinet, and might be a little antiquated for a well off knight of 1400. But it is not outside the realm of possibility.

Pants. Here is where the die hards will crucify me. I wear my fancy chausses and hosen OFF the battle field. ON it I wear a plain pair of black sweat pants. Purchases them a size or half size too small for you. They will hug the leg better, and have a little more of the hose look to them.

Under the breastplate, I would certainly reccomend some form of light arming jacket. I used to wear one from Historica Enterprises, until i ehem.. grew out of it. You will be able to point (tie) your arms and even legs to it.

I think the arms and legs look passable. You should consider greaves for the more full leg look. At this point in time you might be able to get away with a splinted leather greave. If doing that, I would suggest balancing it out with other splinted pieces to give it a more transitional armor look. Something along the lines of this Jeff Wasson armor. It dates a little later 1410-1415, but I think parts are passable for 1400:

If you get a nice fitted, (and possible shaped) jupon, in my eyes it doesn't matter what you have on under it for a breastplate. if I can't see it, and what I do see looks right, then I can believe pretty much anything.

Shoes. Period shoes are great, interesting to get used to fighting in, and can run from $50 to $200. I have a $50 pair. As for covers. The best shoe covers for armor and Sabatons. But to look right you will need some form of greave.


Let me know if there is anything you need help with or have moer questions.

[MJBlazek]

I forgot about the gauntlets!

If you are fighting the SCA sword and shield, you could still use those demi gauntlets. I would try to get the white paint off ot them.
Or you could go for a nice pair of finger gauntlets, or a sort of finger, demi hybrid like in the picture above.

You could still get away with the bell cuff gauntlet, though the later you get in the 1400's you start to see longer cuffs on them.

[Jan]

Pants. Here is where the die hards will crucify me. I wear my fancy chausses and hosen OFF the battle field. ON it I wear a plain pair of black sweat pants. Purchases them a size or half size too small for you. They will hug the leg better, and have a little more of the hose look to them.
....
Shoes. Period shoes are great, interesting to get used to fighting in, and can run from $50 to $200. I have a $50 pair. As for covers. The best shoe covers for armor and Sabatons. But to look right you will need some form of greave.

Not going to crucify, but I will add my two cents on these two points. I'll point out immediately that I'm working on recreating the 1260s-1280s.

As far as "pants" go, I went to a set of "fighting" braies and hose a few years ago and I love it. I went with cotton, as this was an effort in prototyping, and they've worked quite well and I think would be cooler than sweat pants. I have found that the cotton "sticks" more than linen does, so mark II will be linen, but I wouldn't discount going with braies and hose.

As far as shoes go, I've been fighting in a set of low boots from one of the cheaper vendors, with vibram soles, and again they work quite well. I have a set of arch supports in them, as I do in all of my historic shoes.

[MJBlazek]

Very well put Jan,

I was approaching this from the standpoint of monetary constraints.
Thats one of the main reasons I go the sweatpant route.
a $5 pair of black sweats is much easier to let get eaten up by armor, grass, sweat and possibly blood than a $40 pair of braies and hose.

[Karl_von_Odenwald]

Armor restored in 1920 mostly using elements from Chalcis to present a full armor of the style that would have been worn about 1400 (a period from which no full armors survive). This armor is at the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art. Caught these photos of it while I was there a couple of weeks ago. Definitely worth checking out if you study armors, they have one of the largest collections of medeival european arms and armors in the world.

full kit:

[img] https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 2044_n.jpg [img]

Closeup of right arm:

[img] https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 9731_n.jpg [img]

Closeup of lower body:

[img] https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 7466_n.jpg [img]

[ChristophH]

Thank you guys, I appreciate it. I am in the process of upgrading a number of the soft pieces to more authentic looking pieces and have upgraded a number of the hard pieces. My next upgrades will be the greaves and a bascinet.

[fredrick_Sca]

Thanks all for the discussion on 1400 German Armor. I reviewed the manuscript.com link and was studing it for at least a hour. Please comment on the "heater was phased out" statement. I did see ovals, rounds, kites and heaters... I even saw an odd shaped oval with a cut out on the face side and higher on the ear side. I am a 1400 centry fighter and use a heater, but would like to hear your opinions.

Thanks Fredrick