IWTB a Macedonian 332 B.C.

[randeeak47]

I WANNA BE....MACEDONIAN!! Greeting I am new to the board. I have been fighting sca 1st century Roman ( leg V). and I was thinking of changeing my armor to Macedonian ( 332bc) Does and one have any idea's on helms?

[medievalarmour]

Hello Sir how are you

[Matthew Amt]

Sure! Just a quick Google Image search on "Macedonian helmet" (though it does help to already know something on the subject, granted!) turns up the classic Phrygian style with full cheekpieces, which is probably very adaptable for SCA use:





Good grief, that search just led to an entire discussion board I'd never heard of!

http://www.pothos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3893

There are also Thracian styles, but those don't generally have such enclosing cheekpieces.



Plus open styles like the Boeotian or the simple pilos helmet, but again, I think your best bet is a Phrygian. Obviously you don't want a Corinthian, those are way too early.

For armor, either a muscled cuirass in bronze or iron, or a tube-and-yoke cuirass of *quilted* linen (NOT glued!), heavy leather, scale/lamellar, or even iron plate like Philip's cuirass from Vergina.



And of course you'll want a REALLY long spear, ha! Hope that gets you started.

Matthew

[wolf16mt]

For armor, either a muscled cuirass in bronze or iron, or a tube-and-yoke cuirass of *quilted* linen (NOT glued!), heavy leather, scale/lamellar, or even iron plate like Philip's cuirass from Vergina.



And of course you'll want a REALLY long spear, ha! Hope that gets you started.

Matthew

The specific name of the linen armour is linothorax.
It was the most common armour around. Also are you going for a specific type of warrior? Like a member of the phalanx?

[wolf16mt]

And one other thing. I also second the Phrygian motif as well. The helm would be much easier to make into a combat ready helm.

And as a note. The shields they carried were quite large. There is a shield construction section on roman army talk to look at. There are alot of people in the know on there to ask about different aspects of the kit too.

[Matthew Amt]

The specific name of the linen armour is linothorax.
It was the most common armour around.

Actually, no. The word "linothorax" was apparently not used (or is very rare?) in ancient literature. Linen armor certainly did exist, but in the Late Archaic and early Classical era, Greek references to it are always to something NON-Greek and alien. Persian, Libyan, Egyptian, etc. The common tube-and-yoke cuirass seen on Greek hoplites in that era was apparently leather, and according to several Greek texts was called the spolas. THAT was the most common armor at that time.

However, for a Macedonian, it's quite possible that the use of linen armor was increasing. It would be the same shape as the spolas, anywhere from 15 to 30 layers thick, and quilted.

Macedonian infantry mostly used a shield that was smaller than the classic large Greek hoplite shield (aspis). It looks like the bowl was about the same diameter or a little smaller (24" to 28", say), but it lacked the outer rim. This allowed the left arm to go through the porpax or armband in the center, with the left hand free to hold the pike (sarissa). Note that the older aspis was certainly still known and used by some Macedonians, just not by their pike-armed infantry.

Oh, heck, shoulda put a link to my own Hoplite site! Nothing really specifically Macedonian on it (yet), but the shield, armor, and sword information should be useful.

http://www.larp.com/hoplite/

Enjoy!

Matthew

[wolf16mt]

Yes matthew amt. You are right. I forgot that tube and yoke was the common use name. And in the case of the shield i was going for the most common idea that people love the phalanx. Hence the large shield suggestion. But if he is going for a specific class of warrior we could pin this down to s science for him. Also i ahve seen your site befoe and found it quite informational when i was studying up on reenacting ancients. So thanks for having that out there.

[Dan Howard]

IIRC the Macedonians called their non-metallic corselet a kottubos. They certainly had plenty of linen corselets after the booty from Issus but it is unknown whether the majority of their original corselets were made of linen or leather.

[wolf16mt]

Thats true. As a rule of thumbs amoungst friends in the area, we consider both ok for reenacting based on that specific statement of we dont definitively know.

[Henrik Granlid]

I am curious as to what people would suggest doing for forearm and elbow protection? Considering the fact that forearm protection keeps bones from breaking, how would one go about this? A pair of bazubads? Since vambraces are pretty much a hollywood norm rather than historical practice, does one compromise? Another solution?

Also, what would be the absolute best sort of gauntlet for a greek impression? The epitome of gauntletness, fit for a warrior not fighting with a basket hilt that is. Fingered gauntlet/faux finger mitten with a very low profile wrist? Visby-style wrist?

[Matthew Amt]

Well, I've never fought in the SCA, so not sure how much help I can be! It's true that the Hollywood vambraces are completely un-historical, but yes, SOMEthing needs to be worn. Long-sleeved tunics are legitimate, so that might be used to cover most anything. I *think* there is also evidence for an armguard of some sort--Warry shows a Roman-style segmented armguard in his book, if I recall correctly. Otherwise, yeah, something low-profile and as unobtrusive as possible.

Too bad you can't fight in front of a green screen, and just "green out" anything you don't want showing, ha!

Matthew

[Henrik Granlid]

So either hidden armour or something along the lines of this then?
http://www.miniatures.de/reenactment/le ... onaere.jpg
Made in the same material as your cuirass.

Or simply hidden armour under long sleeves then.

[Matthew Amt]

So either hidden armour or something along the lines of this then?
http://www.miniatures.de/reenactment/le ... onaere.jpg
Made in the same material as your cuirass.

Made of steel or bronze/brass. I wouldn't use leather or layered linen, it would be too bulky.

Or simply hidden armour under long sleeves then.

Yup!

Matthew