I wanna be a VIKING

[JT]

Have at it. And let's see... how's about 10th century?

Please don't forget that I'll want to wear clothes when off the field, too.

Masses of good reading material on the VSNR website,
http://www.vsnrweb-publications.org.uk/

Also,
http://www.archeurope.com/index.php?page=viking-period

[Mord]

Have at it. And let's see... how's about 10th century?

Please don't forget that I'll want to wear clothes when off the field, too.

First, 10th century where? Iceland? Denmark?

Second, social/economic/political class of you and your family? In other words, "What did your daddy do?" and "Who's your daddy?"

Having answered these questions, there are 2 basic schools of thought concerning the Northern European Peoples of the Early Middle Ages. The first is the literary approach, but this school, for re-enactors, etc., has mostly been discredited.

Gotta go!

Mord.

[JT]

I think I like ICELAND. (But... what happened to the Norskas and Svenskas, yah der hey?)


What did daddy do? Well, neither he nor I went off on any random cruise that ended up in the Far East where I learned the secrets of Ninja fighting to go along with my mystic katana.... Um, yeah.

Let's say that DoD was well off... we aren't talking head honcho or anything, though. And although he didn't go off to Asia, let's be stereotypical, and make him a seafaring man. I want the pillage and plunder aspect, after all.

[Dave Womble]

Go for the hersir look....not as decked out as the chiefs and kings, but much more likely to have mail and a helm, and his clothing, armour, and accessories are going to be much higher class (and thus eye candy for people looking at you), for instance, silver neck and arm rings and brooches vs iron or copper ones...clothing will be more fancy, with bright colors and embroidery on the hems....

Armour amongst the vikings was the same as elsewhere in Britain and the continent...mail, spangens and conical helms with and without nasals (occulars I think were falling by the wayside in the 10th century). centergrip round shields averaging 25" in diameter (give or take).

No evidence for hide, scale, and lammelar. Scale and lamellar would be possible if you based your persona on a Varangian in Byzantine service.

Theres one reference in a Saga (I dont recall which one) to reindeer hide armour paid as tribute by the Lapps, but no other documentation.

Any artwork on your equipment and accoutrements would most likely be of the Jelling or Mammen style...

thats about all i can think of right now without cracking open some books.

Dave

[Hew]

There's this lengthy thread from the Research and Authenticity section:
Re-examining Modern Viking Reenactor Beliefs
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=41568
...with 180 replies, as of this posting.

[JJ Shred]

[img]http://home.armourarchive.org/members/bascot/bjorn_the_viking_2.jpg[/img]

[JJ Shred]

Norwegian male, 10th C. from the ground up:
A pair of turnshoes, perhaps with goatskin uppers and cow leather lowers, perhaps a pair of socks made from naalbinding or sprang
Either a pair of wool trousers or linen hosen, perhaps footed, wrapped from ankle to under the knee with a 3 or 4 yard piece of wool or leather, appr. 2" wide, of puttee-type
I assume braies
A linen undertunic, long sleeved with embroidered or tablet woven trim on the wrist, hem and collar (depending on wealth and status)
A woolen overtunic, also embellished with tablet woven sleeves, hem and collar
A cloak made of wool, square or rectangular secured by a brooch of copper-alloy
A belt of leather appr. 1" wide secured with a 'D' shaped buckle, with a belt tip and a keeper of copper-alloy
A domed hat of leather usually trimmed with fur or a contrasting leather

Female:
Leather turnshoes
Naalbinding socks
Viking skyrta, a petticoat of linen or silk
Kyrtil or pleated underdress of linen or fine wool
Overdress of linen or wool
Hangerock attached with two brooches of copper-alloy or silver
Mantle or sleeveless overdress embellished with embroidery or braid
A second mantle or cloak
Girdle double wrapped and tied in back
Wimple or/and a hood

[Mord]

Have at it. And let's see... how's about 10th century?

Please don't forget that I'll want to wear clothes when off the field, too.

First, 10th century where? Iceland? Denmark?

Second, social/economic/political class of you and your family? In other words, "What did your daddy do?" and "Who's your daddy?"

Having answered these questions, there are 2 basic schools of thought concerning the Northern European Peoples of the Early Middle Ages. The first is the literary approach, but this school, for re-enactors, etc., has mostly been discredited.

Gotta go!

Mord.

I will continue this tommarow...

...As I was saying...

There are two schools of thought concerning Northern European Peoples of the Early Middle Ages. The first is the literary school, but this approach, for students of history has mostly been discredited. The reasons for this is,

1. Many sources, notably the Icelandic Sagas, were written (as opposed to composed) 200-300 years after the historical event. The literature is the product of "oral historic techniques"--a form of history which historians despise. The sagas are legends, which means they, on the whole (except for maybe the "Landnamabok") there is too much fiction in them.

2. Other sources were not created by the Northern European peoples. The most noted (though no the only) example here is the "Anglo-Saxon Chronicle" begun by Alfred the Great. The source has a bias, as many other sources do. The bias is often so strong that the history is lost.

There is a very good article concerning the problems of literary sources in Peter Sawyer's book "Age of the Vikings" 2nd edition, 1982. There are other writings about sources, but Sawyer's work is the best place to start.

The other school of thought about the Northern European Peoples in the Early Middle Ages is Archaeology. Now using the theoretical model of anthropology, archaeology has had a long relationship with the Early Middle Ages in general. Indeed, one of the fathers of modern archaeology, JAA Worsae, was from Denmark and wrote about the "Vikings." Much can be learned about the history of theory concerning archaeology if you read dig reports and other writings in chronological order of publication. You can see the evolution of archaeology gentlemanly stealing to nationalistic legalized looting to treasure hunting to poorly funded science.

Archaeology is always uncovering (literally) new information. Such continuous discoveries often contradict certain theories and certain analysis. Archaeology is very much about debating the meaning of the objects as evidence. Methods of analysis are often the mostly hotly debated subject. The current method of analysis is statistical. The body of objects discovered is entered into a database and a spreadsheet program is applied to that list. The curious reader might want to check out the book "The Pace of Change" which has a series of articles concerning this technique.

The product of all this scholarship and both schools of thought has left me in serious doubt about such histoical ideas as the "Viking Age." For me, it is more important to understand where you are from and what your family does (are they farmers? merchants? shipbuilders? rulers? etc.), and yet the social history of the Northern European Folks is stalled in its infancy. This means more work should be done.

A short bib:

"Northern Antiquities" by Mallet, 1843 (orginal publication is 1770)
Anything by JAA Worsea (a couple are in English)
"The viking ship at Gokstad" by Nicolaysen, 1878?
"The Viking Age" by Du Chailu, 1889. (obsolete)
"Altnordische Waffenkunde" by Hjalmar Falk, 1912
"Viking" by Axel Orlik (1925?)
Anything in the "Saga book" of the Viking Society for Northern Research; used to be called the Viking Club fopr Northern Research.
Look at the "Acta Archaeologia"
Look at "Fornvannen"
"A history of the Vikings" by TD Kendrick (recently re-printed), 1932.
"Scandinavian Archaeology" by Falk and Shetelig (translated by EV Gordon), 1938, oringinally published in 1932.
"Birka I: die Graber." by H. Arbman, 1940?
"The Vikings"by Holger Arbman, 1955?
"The Vikings" by Johannes Brondsted, 1967.
"Everyday Life in the Viking Age." by Jacquline Simpson, 1967.
"Vikings!" by Magnus Magnusson (recently re-printed), 1980?
"Age of the Vikings" by Peter Sawyer, 1982
"A History of the Vikings.' Gwyn Jones, 1984.
"Kings and Vikings" by Peter Sawyer, 1980s?
"The Vikings" by Else Rosedahl, 1990?
"The North Atlandic Saga" by Gwyn Jones, 1980s?
"The Northmen in the Viking Age" by Christiansen, 2004?
"The Vikings and the Victorians" by Andrew Wann?
"Swords of the Vikings Age." by Ian Pierce, 2003.

Also

"The Viking Achievement" by Foote and Wilson, 1980s? The only source that I've found that really tries to discuss social history.
"The Viking Longships" by Shetelig, 1930s?
"Die Norskevikingasvard" by Jan Petersen, 1919.
"London and the Vikings" by M. Wheeler, 1925.
"Three Viking Graves in the Isle of Mann" by Wilson and Bersu, 1965?


There are lots of other books, some of them specializing in various areas, like weapons and swords. There's a hugh plethora of dig reports. Penguin books and Everyman books have also published translations of Icelandic Sagas. Visit a good sized library and you'll find all sorts of stuff.

Mord.

[Halvgrimr]

Theres one reference in a Saga (I dont recall which one) to reindeer hide armour paid as tribute by the Lapps, but no other documentation.

Dave

--Greetings Dave

To be safe I'd avoid the reindeer references.
There are no references to armour, just coats, cloaks and jerkins.
Each has had a magic spell cast on it to be 'protective'
So its the spell that has given the user protection not armour.

btw most of the references come from the Heimskringla, Saga of Olaf Haraldson (St. Olaf)

You can see what my research on the subject turned up at http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... t=reindeer

I also have about 8 pages of email between myself and Gunnvor (Gunnora), she knows allot more about the sagas, the mythologies and the mysticism behind all of the subject than I do.

Halv

[Dave Womble]

Yeah, the reindeer hide is highly suspect, I just tossed it out there for S&G's pretty much...I'm also biased towards organic armour, so i have a soft spot for any mention of it during the Migration and Viking periods.

Thats why I noted theres no other reference of it besdies that Saga.

Dave

[Mord]

Our real philological understanding of Old Norse is really only about 200 years old, if that. The saga in question could have been mis-translated. I'd be wary.

And now that I'm home, and various tomes are within reach, here's some more, campers:

In no particular order:

"Im Ostbalitkum gefunde Schwerter mit damaszierten Klingen" by A Antiens in "Waffen und Kostumekunde" 25, 1966.

"La Suede et L'Orient. Eudes Archeologiques.' by TJ Arne.

"Skandinavische Holzkammergraber aud der Wikingerzeit in der Ukraine." by TJ Arne in "Acta Archaeologica" 2, 1931.

"Viking Antiquities in Great Britain and Ireland, Vol III, Ireland." by J. Boe (Shetelig--ed), 1940./

"Danish Inhumation Graves of the Viking Age." J. Brondsted in "Acta Archaeologica" 5, 1936.

"The Norse in Argyll." by MM Brown in "The Archaeology of Argyll." (book) (Richie--ed), 1997.

"Scandinavian Objects found at Islandbridge and Kilmainham." by Coffey and Armstrong in "Proceedings of the Royal Irish Academy" vol. 28, 1910.

"Kuml og Haugfe" by K. Eldjarn, 1956; revised and republished 2000. The only archaeological source I've found for Iceland.

"Zur Formenvietflat der Schwerter und Schwerter fragmente von Haithabu" by A. Geibig in "Offa" VOL. 46, 1989.

"Beitrage zur Morphologischen Entwichlung des Schwertes im Mittlealter." by A. Geibig, 1991 ISBN. 3529011711.

"Viking Artefacts: a select catalogue." by J. Graham-Campbell, 1980.

"Vikings in Scotland. An archaeological survey." by J. Graham-Campbell, 1998.

That's all for now. I'll put up more later.

Mord.

[Cap'n Atli]

Get a boat! "No boat, no Viking!" (Or at least sign up for the crew!)

If you're in the mid-Atlantic, there's the Longship Company, which has a 12 oared coastal raider, the Sae Hrafn: ( www.longshipco.org )


(Courtesy, Washington Post; photo by Whitney Shefte)

(Story and video link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03397.html )

As well as a smaller faering (4-oared) ship’s boat the Gyrfalcon (See below)

..or if you're near Missouri, this one with Vikings, NA:


(Courtesy: Vikings, NA)

Or Viking Sam's sexerin, the Yrsa (http://www.vikingsamonline.com/ ):



Or you can sail on the Blackbird if you’re near Ohio (http://www.vikingagevessels.org/ ):

[img]http://www.vikingagevessels.org/firstsail1.jpg[/img]

I am serious (although most modern "Vikings" don't seem to give a rat's arse); until you've put in some time at the rowing bench, you have very little idea of what was involved. Without a vessel, you were just a farmer on a little coastal strip in Norway between the mountain and the sea. It's sort of like pretending that the USMC has nothing to do with the Navy. The fact that this was basically a nautical enterprise affected the tactics, the equipment, and the mindsets of the folk involved.

Failing that, read up on the subject so that you can tell “one pointy end from the otherâ€

[Mord]

More stuff (and I haven't even cracked into the saga translations yet!)

"Viking Antiquities in Great Britain and Ireland, Volume II, Scotland." by S. Greig. 1940.
"Gjermundbufunnet" by S. Grieg. 1947.
"Toftanes: a Faroese Viking Age Farmstead for 9-10th Centuries." by SS Hansen, in "The Norse in the North Atlantic" (book--special supplement of the Acta Archaeologica). 2000?
"Krigarideologi och Vikingatida Svardstypologi." by M. Jakobsson, 1992. A more recent typology. Interesting.
"Communications between Scandinavian and Eastern Europe in the Viking Age. The Archaeological Evidence." by I. Jansson. in "Untersuchungen zu Handel und Verehr der vor- und fruhgeschtlichen Zeit in Mittel- un Nordeuropa, Teil IV. Der Handel der Karolinger- und Wikingerzeit" (book), 1987.

Mord ( )

[x]

So...here's where the rubber meets the road (so to speak)...

Great picture about 10 posts back...I'd kill to look like that on the field.

Some of it translates beautifully (and solves problems too), the dagger sling off the belt would work perfectly for a backup weapon. The roundshield is, for all intensive purposes perfectly adaptable to the field.

Problem, I can't go on the field unless I meet SCA minimum armor requirements, which require hand/wrist protection, hard knees and elbows, full face helm, and kidney belt.

Some of it is trivial, kidney belt hides under clothing quite well, for example. But how to get past the other problems?

My default suggestion is a modification to my current kit, which is based off hockey arms and shinpads, providing legal protection, while still being low-profile enough...probably...to not interfere with the garment lines.

But, as we all know, hockey armor is less than optimal...what's the better solution?

[Maelgwyn]

In my SCA paper on planning your armour kit for your time and place, I used a Viking kit as an example. The paper is available at http://pages.suddenlink.net/egrim/papers/armour.doc

[Mord]

Perhaps I'm a little grumpy, but it seems to me that since my thoughts on the subject have not been commented upon (except for one joke), that noone is interested in reading what I have to say. I'll try a different tact.

My persona in the SCA is a 10th century Icelander. Please note that I do not declare myself a "viking." I have problems with the word "viking" because of the bias and the confusion that the word often causes. Previous posts on other threads ("thinking about Vikings) have elaborated on these thoughts. The question is, how do you go about understanding and studyin 10th century Iceland?

There are the sagas, the most useful of which is the "Landnamabok," literarlly, "The Land Naming Book." The places where Iceland was settled can be found in this book. The other sagas, unless you ask Jesse Byock (author of "Viking Age Iceland"), are not really dependable historical sources. Please see my previous posts on this thread for an explaination.

You are left with archaeology. But there is damn little accessable archaeology. The only publication I have been able to find and obtain is "Kuml og Haugfe: ur Heithnum sith a Islandi" by K. Eldgarn and published in 1956. This book was revised and republished by A. Frithriksson in 2000. However, there's not a lot of information about arms and armor in this source.

"Kuml og Haugfe" documents: swords, spears, axes, archery (rare, however) and shieldbosses (and so shields), but that's it. No helms and body armors that could be used or adapted for use. In fact, information about shields is sketchy. Sheildbosses have only been documented. What kind of wood was used can not be established (though, I suspect it was birch--this wood has been documented as being present on 10th C Iceland. If I can find the catation, I will certainly post it.). The size of shields can not be documented. etc.

Any suggestions?

Mord.

[JJ Shred]

I am serious (although most modern "Vikings" don't give a rat's arse); until you've put in some time at the rowing bench, you have very little idea of what was involved. Without a vessel, you were just a farmer on a little coastal strip in Norway between the mountain and the sea. It's sort of like pretending that the USMC has nothing to do with the Navy. The fact that this was basically a nautical enterprise affected the tactics, the equipment, and the mindsets of the folk involved.

I am currently this farmer, as I have yet to "go a-viking".
I've got my rowing chest packed and ready to go though....

[Cap'n Atli]

Good points by both Sir Mord and Bascot on adapting the story to fit the circumstances. I have some more comments, but I'll have to try to post tonight, tomorrow or this weekend. (...yes, my life is that cluttered right now!)

[Mord]

I am certainly not 'taking sides' in the matter but perhaps it would be better to have two threads

I want to be an SCA Vikings and I want to be a LH Vikings.

I fear the discussion of both will muddle this (and the other) thread(s).

Again, I play both so I am not suggesting segregation based on the rules sets, only by what is expected by each situation

Halv

Having had the arguement about SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) vikings and LH (living history groups), I have come to the conclusion that we should just discuss the "Vikings," and not worry about which group is better or worse or whatever. I'll admit that in the last arguement I was a stubborn SOB, and I am sorry for it.

One of the reasons I am on this list is to be able to "bounce" ideas and theories and information about the Northern European Folks. I am looking for feedback and I am looking to contribute. My general interest is the nature of trade in the Early Medieval North and the affect trading had on social and political structures. I have a very specific interest in arms and armor and burial archaeology.

Mord.

[Griffin]

Here is what I have for a 10th century Danelaw resident.

The First batch of books deal with the material side of things.

The York Archaeological Trust will become your new best friends. You will buy their books and read them, study them, rub them against your body...maybe thats just me. A listing of the books can be found and purchased here.

http://www.yorkarchaeology.co.uk/pubs/pubs.php

Also check out the Council for British Archaeology. They will have some of the same books, but sometimes on sale.

http://www.britarch.ac.uk/shop/index.html

"The Viking Dig" by Richard Hall 1984
"From Viking to Crusader" by Else Roesdahl 1992

Also look at the Anglo-Saxons and the Irish.

"The Anglo-Saxons" by James Graham-Campbell 1991
"Dress in Anglo-Saxon England" by Gale Owen-Crocker 2004 reprinted
"The Vikings in Ireland" ed. Anne-Christine Larsen 2001

The following books deal more with the social aspects of the Danelaw and surrounding areas.

"Vikings and the Danelaw" ed. James Graham-Campbell 2001
"Cultures in Contact: Scandinavian Settlement in England in the Ninth and Tenth Centuries" ed. Dawn Hadley and Julian Richards 2000
"Anglo-Scandinavian England" ed. John Niles and Mark Amodio 1989
"Viking Age England" by Julian Richards 1991
"Northumbria, 500-1100 Creation and Destruction of a Kingdom" by David Rollason 2003
"Blood of the Vikings" by Julian Richards 2003
"Bloodfeud: Murder and Revenge in Anglo-Saxon England" by Richard Fletcher 2002
"Vikings: Fear and Faith" by Paul Cavell 2001

[Samuel]

IM looking to finish my SCA kit for my valsgarde 6 helm. ( helm is gettin the last of the brass this weekend)

im curious if mail or maybe a roman body armor would be better suited.

currently Im doing hidden leg armor and leather "bazuband" rebraces ( gotta meet armor reqs)
Ive got some decent viking knotwork patterns for the brasswork to be applied but think I may be in overkill on it thus far
valsgarde helms are all dated to mid or last 7th cent. which makes me think anything roman would be too late and a chain shirt mid sleeved and no longer than thigh length would be more accurate.
the Other possibility is lammelar. but I think that doesnt suit the area well.

or would both be too late ?

[Cap'n Atli]

Why do the images keep disappearing? Sometimes they're here, and sometimes not...

[Cap'n Atli]

...
Right, upstaged by someone with a ship. I bet he gets all the girls too.
...
Mord ( )

"Ah yes, m'Lady; how would you like to come out on our 40! yacht?" (You don't tell 'em they have to row the bloody thing, of course!)

SCA & Reenactor Vikings:

As far as I'm concerned, (and from a Markland point of view) you do what you have to do to qualify your gear for Scadian combat. You just can't ccome close to the typical dark ages fighting kit with any degree of safety, or you can achieve the safety (and meet the qualifications needed) and just not be all that authentic for the combat. This should not prevent you from wearing reenactment quality gear any time you're not in the lists or actually fighting in a war.

Books:

If you're into ironwork (which I am, as longs as the ironwork isn't into me) you'll love Anglo-Scandinavian Ironwork from Coppergate by Patrick Ottaway ((c) 1992, York Archaeological Trust; ISBN 1 872414 29 X).

This is all the stuff that you don't see in museums, but you'll find on the back shelves. It's the bits and pieces of daily life. Over 100 knives, al of them different. Horse harness and hinges; locks and latches; spoons and spurs; ring pins and cook pots.

(Actually, just about all of the series from the York Archaeological trust are fascinating that I've seen (with the exception of non-ferrous metals, which was long on analysis and short on artifacts).

Pictures:

I don't know what's wrong with the pictures; they're up on the LSCo page.

[Clinker]

Samuel, any Roman armor which a 7thC scandinavian could conceivably wear would BE mail. Lorica Segmentas went out about 2nd C. Mail hung on until the Roman Empire ceased to exist. German and Danish Bog Finds of late Roman- derived arms and armor included only mail for body armor.

If you want more protection from rattan, the general SCA drift is towards lamellar, albeit with historical caveats.

The gladiator helmet and plate armor seen in 'The 13th Warrior' is just WRONG.

[Samuel]

Samuel, any Roman armor which a 7thC scandinavian could conceivably wear would BE mail. Lorica Segmentas went out about 2nd C. Mail hung on until the Roman Empire ceased to exist. German and Danish Bog Finds of late Roman- derived arms and armor included only mail for body armor.

If you want more protection from rattan, the general SCA drift is towards lamellar, albeit with historical caveats.

The gladiator helmet and plate armor seen in 'The 13th Warrior' is just WRONG.

IM kinda thinking a plain mail shirt with maybe a brass toggle on the front and possbily wearing a wide belt (roman esk kinda like what raymond wears)

you in Denver? we should meet up at practice sometime. I get to the boulder practice on occasion since thats the half-way point for one of my squires ( I live in ft collins)

IM seriously considering one of Knutts shirts... now to just get the cash for it.

Im not overtly worried about body protection.. I dont generally get hit on the body.. Ive found the only time where a body shot is really a concern is when spearing and I usually get it in the head or arm then...

what im thinking with the heavily brassed helm is presenting a local warlord persona in dress. sorta fit for the time. plus I really dont wanna put on some muscled out curasss that just " dont reflect reality" im workin on my preducal ponch..

[Mord]

Samuel, any Roman armor which a 7thC scandinavian could conceivably wear would BE mail. Lorica Segmentas went out about 2nd C. Mail hung on until the Roman Empire ceased to exist. German and Danish Bog Finds of late Roman- derived arms and armor included only mail for body armor.

If you want more protection from rattan, the general SCA drift is towards lamellar, albeit with historical caveats.

The gladiator helmet and plate armor seen in 'The 13th Warrior' is just WRONG.

IM kinda thinking a plain mail shirt with maybe a brass toggle on the front and possbily wearing a wide belt (roman esk kinda like what raymond wears)

you in Denver? we should meet up at practice sometime. I get to the boulder practice on occasion since thats the half-way point for one of my squires ( I live in ft collins)

IM seriously considering one of Knutts shirts... now to just get the cash for it.

Im not overtly worried about body protection.. I dont generally get hit on the body.. Ive found the only time where a body shot is really a concern is when spearing and I usually get it in the head or arm then...

what im thinking with the heavily brassed helm is presenting a local warlord persona in dress. sorta fit for the time. plus I really dont wanna put on some muscled out curasss that just " dont reflect reality" im workin on my preducal ponch..

Just a moment of definition, please. The Valsgarde 6 helm and other arms and armor from the cemetary ARE NOT PART of the so-called viking-age. The Valsgarde arms and armor are part of the pre-viking period call the Vendel Period, which goes from about 550 AD to about 800 AD. There are books on the subject:

"Vendel Period Studies" the English version of "Vendeltid" (for those of you who read Swedish)
"Valsgarde 6" by Arwiddsson
"Valsgarde 7" by Arwiddsson
"Valsgarde 8" by Arwiddsson
"La Necropole de Vendel" by Stolpe
"Waffen und Graber" by Annd Norgard-Jorgensen.
"Der Vendelzeit Gotlands."

All of these books discuss, in some way, arms and armor. Helms, swords, spears and shields are the items discussed. Arwiddson did discover a box full of iron staves and thought they were some kind of body armor. She was later proven wrong. The staves are now thought to be greaves and forearm armor.

There's more lots more on the Vendel Period, but believe that this is the inappropriate thread to discuss it.

Mord.

[JJ Shred]

So what rank do you wish to be?
A King?
Perhaps a Jarl? (A fully independent lord.)
Or a Landsmenn? (Equivalent to medieval barons, being able to field and maintain forty men in the levy, or a ship commander.)
An Odalbondi/Hauldr? (Landowners with hereditary rights to their land.)
A Karl/Bondi? (Truly free land holding farmers, from impoverished peasants to men of wealth and authority. They could be sailors, hunters, traders or raiders.)
A Leysingi (freed slave)? (Still dependent on his former owner.)
Gjafar (Freed slave under obligation)?
Thrall(male)/Ambatt(female) - slave-? Thralls had few rights and could hold no land, and could be beaten, maimed or killed.

Personally, I aim for a Karl, as I have some land to farm and can afford to outfit myself. I suppose if I inherit my Father's 100 acres, I could declare myself Hauldr, and would need the services of a leysingi, gjafar or some thralls in order to successfully farm a whole hide of land in two different locations.
I feel it is important to maintain a sense of proportion to what you can adequately pull off. If you don't even have the basic kit, how can you call yourself a Jarl, or lord? If you have nothing, then you should be a thrall and concentrate on the linen undertunic, wool overtunic, braies, trousers and simple belt. Then get some turnshoes and nicer soft kit, saving the original "basic" kit for labour. Add a cloak, copper-alloy broach, nice belt with copper-alloy buckle, tip and keeper, then embroider the sleeves, hem and neck of the undertunic, then add tablet-weaving to the wool tunic's sleeves, collar and hem.
The first outfit should be basic colours such as natural (oatmeal) or brown, with reds being added as you go up the social structure. Purple was expensive, and no thrall could have possibly afforded it.

[Cap'n Atli]

Hmmm; I actually can field 40 men, command a longship, and I hold hereditary land (over a hide, even if it's mostly hardwood swamp). On the other claw, I've spent over 30 years lurking my way up in the organizations.

But then I've always held that a persona, to truly work, should be a reflection of the actual person and his or her capabilities and personality. There's nothing sadder, or messier, than a mismatched persona.

On the longship, there is a rough egalitarianism; at least as we practice it, and, based on the necessity of the operation, possibly as our ancestors ran things. It's a rare and special guest that doesn't take a turn at the rowing bench; honored guests take a turn at the steerboard (under supervision) and anybody may be asked to take a line and help out. All of the regular crew is expected to learn the ropes and take whatever duties that they feel qualified for. Discipline is cooperative rather than top-down. (This is wise when everybody is armed. )

We even have what is called "creative mutiny" in which; if the crew thinks the skipper has an overambitious plan ("Let's see if we can sail to Vinland this week!") the crew can discuss the wisdom of the voyage and persuade the skipper that their interests lay elsewhere.

I really do think that the necessities of building, maintaining and operating these vessels had a profound impact on the organization and cohesiveness of the warbands and the society as a whole. I'm not saying that it's an egalitarian paradise, but the semi-cooperative model works a lot better on these vessels than the ol' Royal Navy/Cap'n Bligh model (which didn't actually work all that well for Cap'n Bligh, either, come to think of it!).

[Mord]

A few posts back, I cited a book entitled, "The Viking Achievement" by Peter Foote and David Wilson. This is the only synthesis that tries to examine Northern European Folks as in a social historical way. Some of the various titles for important folks seem to regional titles.

For instance, the term "hirsir" or "hersir" seems to be Norwegian. Originally, it ment "one who leads" the Hirth (army or militia), but the word changed to eventually mean "landed man."

In Denmark there was a title called "Staersman"--literally "Steersman" meaning, one who captained a boat. A Skipper. So, if Capt. Atli were a Dane, his title might be Stearsman Atli.

Some titles/terms are not regional, "Bondi," "Jarl" and "King" are such.

Our understanding of Early Medieval Northern European social history is stalled in its infancy. I've found no one really prepared to take it on as a whole. There are hints, both archaeological and literary (each discipline with its own problems and limitations), but no one seems willing to try and put it all together.

Mord.

[JJ Shred]

Armour for a 10th - 11th C. Viking.

Spangenhelm or one piece Norman nasal
Haulberk
Spear
Shield
Sword
Seax
Axe

[JJ Shred]

10th C. and 11th C. Norman:

[Mord]

Hey Mord, I never knew you were such a fountain of viking knowledge...hafta add you to my budding list of contacts...Halvgrim and Cap'n Atli were the first, but you also seem to be worth your salt

I had a question for you....you mentioned Hersir seems to be norwegian, what, if anything, was the Danish equivalent? I'm basing my persona originally on a Danish hersir of the late 9th, early 10th century, but if its not a generally accepted Danish concept, I would like to rethink it.

Thank you for the book lists by the way...there were a few on there that Gunnora (Christie Ward, Viking Answer Lady) didnt mention. Of course, I imagine most of them are out of print and quite pricey, but I will keep my eyes open nonetheless. Thanks!

Dave

Dave,

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Let me give you a fuller citation concern "titles," etc. The book I'm taking this information from is "The Viking Achievement," by Peter Foote and David Wilson, London, Sidgwick and Jackson. 1970 (reprinted 1984) ISBN: 0283979267 (paperback), 0283354992 (hardback). I have the paperback. Check chapter 4, "Authority and Administration" pages, 123-144. If you can't find the book, give me a shout.

The problem I have with "The Viking Achievement" is that everybody depends upon it. I've tried to find other, separate sources that discuss social/authority positions, but everytime I look, they all reference Foote and Wilson. I'd like to find another synthesis.

Mord.

[Mord]

Since I'm stuck here on the desk until noon (very short staffed), I'll put up some more:

"Viking Weapons." by Lindsey in "Scottish Art Review" vol. 10, #2
"The Vikings in Britain." by Loyn, 1977.
"Das Bootkammergrab von Haithabu." by Muller-White, 1976
"Krieger und Reiter im Spiegel fruh- und hochmittelatler" by Muller-White in "Offa" 1976.

Mord.

[Patton Lives]

<Snip>
Great picture about 10 posts back...I'd kill to look like that on the field.

Problem, I can't go on the field unless I meet SCA minimum armor requirements, which require hand/wrist protection, hard knees and elbows, full face helm, and kidney belt.

For a cheap simple solution, for the helmet you can just get a bargrill conical helmet(looks like thats what he's wearing), padded cuisses with attached knees and some simple low profile greaves(like Uilleag makes), cover from the knee down in cloth to hide everthing, for arms attach a couter and some simple vambraces to a thin arming cote then cover them with another garment or just wrapped cloth like the shins, get a leather cuirass and kidney belt, and wear a short sleeved, knee length butted mail byrnie over the whole deal. half gauntlets, round shield, basket hilt and your set.

[Patton Lives]

Beem mulling over this kit in more detail all day and heres some more ideas I came up with

upper body,
If a St Louis shirt from H.E. is ok for the 10th century, I was thinking you could take 2 of these and double them up, and add a layer of cotton batting for padding between them, quilt it up the sleeves, front and back maybe an inch or two wide, cut in points for the elbow couters and vambraces, then wear another st louis shirt over all that to hide the armor. Were vambraces known in the 10th century? If so those could be worn visibly over the 3rd shirt. Then wear the short sleeved mail shirt over that.

For the lower body, I was thinking you could take 2 of the H.E. 13th or 14th century brais and do the same thing as the st louis shirt, and only pad and quilt the thighs, and hang poleyns from those, maybe draw string the bottom so they dont flap around, then wrap your lower leg in a layer of wool or linen. Were they wearing turnshoes at this time?somthing like revival makes.

For weapons, avoiding the basket hilts would be a plus in my book, mandrakes spear head and viking sword fittings seem best. Can get a shield boss(I like therions pointy ones) and make a round shield by layering 2 sheets of 1/4 inch birch or oak. I'd have to check on numbers for authentic shield diameters.

I'm not sure on how to deal with the hand protection. Hockey gloves would be a cheap alternative to avoid the baskets, maybe Brian Prices upcomming armored gloves will work.