I wanna be a VIKING
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
So I am a Wire Wienie. Take that into account when you read my questions and wonder why the hell I dont know this stuff. I am planning on doing a soft kit under garb like you could find at linengarb.com. I want to do a minimalist look while being as protected as possible. I need to get used to being hit hard. LOL.
I plan on using the zoombang shirt added with a pair of shock doctor 580 hockey shorts (http://www.amazon.com/Shock-Doctor-Shoc ... ckskin+580) and the hard knees and elbows on pads. I do not plan on mail armor anytime soon because I have to balance my funds between fencing and heavy right now and I need a nice new Darkwood sword this season as well. So I have a few questions for you guys.
1: What do you use with the soft kit if you dont use mail? Can you just use the soft kit and be ok?
2: Do you use soft kit arms and shins? If so what do you use?
I am sure I will think of more questions later.
I plan on using the zoombang shirt added with a pair of shock doctor 580 hockey shorts (http://www.amazon.com/Shock-Doctor-Shoc ... ckskin+580) and the hard knees and elbows on pads. I do not plan on mail armor anytime soon because I have to balance my funds between fencing and heavy right now and I need a nice new Darkwood sword this season as well. So I have a few questions for you guys.
1: What do you use with the soft kit if you dont use mail? Can you just use the soft kit and be ok?
2: Do you use soft kit arms and shins? If so what do you use?
I am sure I will think of more questions later.
Lord Marcos de Ribera, Fencer and aspiring Stick Jock
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Assuming you're talking about the SCA then you absolutely don't need mail, it completes the look but it doesn't satisfy the armour regs on its own anyway. You need hard protection over kidneys and some bones (check your kingdom regs for the exact details and definitions) after you've met the rules it's about comfort.Thoargrimr Gunnarsson wrote: 1: What do you use with the soft kit if you dont use mail? Can you just use the soft kit and be ok?
2: Do you use soft kit arms and shins? If so what do you use?
I am sure I will think of more questions later.
Having no idea about your skill level and what weapons you plan to fight with it's hard to know what to recomend but consider the following points then pick the armour you need.
- light padding on the shoulders is easiest for the correct look but a shot onto the point of the shoulder hurts
- a thrust into the gut when all you have is light padding and dreams of glory sucks
- if you don't have enough natural padding, be it muscle or otherwise, shots onto the radius, ulna & ribs aren't pleasant
- shots onto the point of the hip suck
- if you wear baggy trousers people will hit you low (NB you're not allowed to complain about this until you wear tighter trousers)
- if you use a round shield you will knock shots low instead of block them some times and the shin bone has very little natural padding
- you don't need to armour the thigh but repeated blows become somewhat tedious
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Not a viking here, but I do a 11th-12th century Andalusian West African Berber, and I have two kits, my mail kit, and my light soft kit. Its not unlike a "viking" soft kit.Bastior wrote:Assuming you're talking about the SCA then you absolutely don't need mail, it completes the look but it doesn't satisfy the armour regs on its own anyway. You need hard protection over kidneys and some bones (check your kingdom regs for the exact details and definitions) after you've met the rules it's about comfort.Thoargrimr Gunnarsson wrote: 1: What do you use with the soft kit if you dont use mail? Can you just use the soft kit and be ok?
2: Do you use soft kit arms and shins? If so what do you use?
I am sure I will think of more questions later.
Having no idea about your skill level and what weapons you plan to fight with it's hard to know what to recomend but consider the following points then pick the armour you need.
- light padding on the shoulders is easiest for the correct look but a shot onto the point of the shoulder hurts
- a thrust into the gut when all you have is light padding and dreams of glory sucks
- if you don't have enough natural padding, be it muscle or otherwise, shots onto the radius, ulna & ribs aren't pleasant
- shots onto the point of the hip suck
- if you wear baggy trousers people will hit you low (NB you're not allowed to complain about this until you wear tighter trousers)
- if you use a round shield you will knock shots low instead of block them some times and the shin bone has very little natural padding
- you don't need to armour the thigh but repeated blows become somewhat tedious
B
This is what I wear.
-Windrose conical helm with slightly wider than normal nasal and a leather drape attached at the brow line.
-Under Armour MDZ compression shirt, it is what is worn under football pads by many NFL players, it has shock pads in the shoulders, floating ribs and spine.
-10oz leather body bracelete/belt. It is waxed and has a bit of light padding around the back of the kidneys. It covers my soft midsection.
-Under Armour MDZ compression shorts. Again another football cary over. It has shock pads on the thighs, tail bone, and hips.
-My knees are protected by autocross (Motorcycle) knee and shin guards, they are REALLY low profile and breath amazingly well, but for 90 bucks they should.
-Aluminium wingless elbow cops attached to volleyball pads.
It doesnt matter what I put over that, I meet min
If I could link pics from my Facebook page I would link one from last Atlantia Fall Crown, where I wore my soft kit instead of my mail.
I personally hate the hockey shoulder pads under a tunic look, it leads to most people looking like Frankenstiens little, less fearsome, brother.
As for the marking of the knees, some kingdoms require you mark your knees location if you dont have knee armor on above clothing. This is to make sure there is no confusion over blow placement legality. Check with your local marshal to find out on those specifics.
But you can make some really nice looking soft kits without needing to spend a stupid amount of money or looking like some kind of free of nature.
I think total I have around a thousand bucks into my WHOLE kit, including the helm. But that was spread out over 6 years so it wasnt that bad. The helm was the most expensive single investment. And my mail was a lucky find on ebay, I got VERY lucky.
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Thanks guys. This helps a lot.
I am not looking for the hockey shoulders or anything like that. I am willing to take some lumps of wearing soft kit armor, I was just trying to get a feel for what you guys wear with the kit.
Thoar
I am not looking for the hockey shoulders or anything like that. I am willing to take some lumps of wearing soft kit armor, I was just trying to get a feel for what you guys wear with the kit.
Thoar
Lord Marcos de Ribera, Fencer and aspiring Stick Jock
South Oaken Rapier XO
Middle Kingdom
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South Oaken Rapier XO
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
You can also wear a gambison under a tunic and be just fine as long as you meet your kingdoms minimum armor requirements.
Re: I wanna be a VIKING
I'm looking into getting some motocross gear that will hide nicely under a gambeson or tunic (I haven't decided which I'm going to wear yet) the only thing I'm having an issue with is the Gauntlets because I'm not entirely sure what a viking (Or Scot for that matter) would have worn.
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Viking hand protection, to the best of my knowledge, consists of one or more of the following crossguard, shield, prowess and luck. The best you can make your hand protection less glaringly obvious, blackened, russeted, leather coverd &c.
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
That's about it. If you want to be safe in the SCA I use tooled leather gautlets. We don't have examples but something like that looks nice.Bastior wrote:Viking hand protection, to the best of my knowledge, consists of one or more of the following crossguard, shield, prowess and luck. The best you can make your hand protection less glaringly obvious, blackened, russeted, leather coverd &c.
B
Re: I wanna be a VIKING
So I know the lower level guys would wear basically a helmet and a shirt and stuff, and the Upper crust would have the fancy chain... what about the middle guys? Was tehre padded armor of any sort of this time preiod?
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
I believe that the general consensus, at least when discussed on the AA, is that there is an absence of evidence.MJBlazek wrote:So I know the lower level guys would wear basically a helmet and a shirt and stuff, and the Upper crust would have the fancy chain... what about the middle guys? Was tehre padded armor of any sort of this time preiod?
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Right, absence of evidence, not evidence of absence. A leather or padded cloth layer under mail would be a reasonable conjecture (seriously, wearing riveted mail without padding is not comfortable, much less fighting in it - why would they put up with that, when they could sew?), as would either worn on their own, but we have no evidence to guide us in their construction. Hiding it is just a much safer bet.Michael B wrote:I believe that the general consensus, at least when discussed on the AA, is that there is an absence of evidence.MJBlazek wrote:So I know the lower level guys would wear basically a helmet and a shirt and stuff, and the Upper crust would have the fancy chain... what about the middle guys? Was tehre padded armor of any sort of this time preiod?
Also, I think you'll find that protection for the body is usually the first piece of armor in any culture, before a helm. The SCA armor standard makes for different priorities than those of a life-and-death battlefield. Mail, while superfluous for us, would be the most important defense for a fighting man in the Viking Age, and a 'lower level' guy would want to come as close to that as possible. Knowing they were going into a fight, it seems likely they would have been creative as their later medieval descendants in coming up with ways to protect their centers of mass with the materials available to them.
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"I've schlepped ugly gear about the field. It does not inspire -- not me, not anybody. Better to try and make it pretty." - Konstantin the Red
Former armourer at Darkwood Armory, now just armouring a bit for fun.
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Lorccan wrote: (seriously, wearing riveted mail without padding is not comfortable, much less fighting in it
I disagree on both accounts, speaking from practical experience. I don't wear anything under my mail other than a tunic (and a kidney belt); other than the weight (about 20lbs, and even that isn't too bad), it's actually fairly comfortable - in combat it moves with me naturally and doesn't get in the way or impede my movement. Also, I find that my mail soaks and dissipates blunt force blows reasonably well. As for mail in SCA combat, while recognizing that it's a matter of personal comfort and preference, I'd say that it is actually a pretty good armor for our conventions.Mail, while superfluous for us,
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Seconded. My Ti mail shirt weighs about 12# and under it is just a tunic & light kidney belt. I wore a thin gambeson under a kidney belt before I got the mail, with the gambeson & the mail I found I had trouble feeling a 'good' body shot. The tunic prevents any abrasion, and only rarely have I gotten the classic 'mail waffle-weave' from being hit, and then it's just surface skin, not bruising. YMMVDenewulf wrote:Lorccan wrote: (seriously, wearing riveted mail without padding is not comfortable, much less fighting in itI disagree on both accounts, speaking from practical experience. I don't wear anything under my mail other than a tunic (and a kidney belt); other than the weight (about 20lbs, and even that isn't too bad), it's actually fairly comfortable - in combat it moves with me naturally and doesn't get in the way or impede my movement. Also, I find that my mail soaks and dissipates blunt force blows reasonably well. As for mail in SCA combat, while recognizing that it's a matter of personal comfort and preference, I'd say that it is actually a pretty good armor for our conventions.Mail, while superfluous for us,
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
That's definitely not true. Since the dawn of warfare the head was the first part of the body to be protected. In many cases nothing but a shield and helmet was used. Body armour was often reserved for the higher ranks. In many cases the majority of a host wore no body armour at all.Lorccan wrote:Also, I think you'll find that protection for the body is usually the first piece of armor in any culture, before a helm.
Additionally, it wouldn't be wise to speculate on the practicalities of mail until you had a shirt that was specifically tailored for you just like historical mail.
And saying "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is complete nonsense. There is no evidence to say that they didn't wear pink tutus and wield gingerbread katanas either. It is a logical impossibility to prove a negative. Mord has already more than adequately demonstrated that, based on the available evidence, vikings either wore mail armour or no armour. That is the only reasonable conclusion until evidence to the contrary presents itself.
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
But really, there *is* evidence of absence! It's not just that there is no mention of padded garments, or any suggestion that leather armor was at all common. There are surviving laws and regulations for militia requirements (Carolingian and Saxon, as well as Norse), or the armor and weapons to be carried on Viking ships, and in spite of being pretty detailed, NONE of them mention padded or leather armor! The one Norseman who made himself a leather protective thingy seems to have been considered pretty strange. So the literary, pictoral, and archeological sources are all consistent and in full agreement.Lorccan wrote:Right, absence of evidence, not evidence of absence.Michael B wrote:I believe that the general consensus, at least when discussed on the AA, is that there is an absence of evidence.MJBlazek wrote:So I know the lower level guys would wear basically a helmet and a shirt and stuff, and the Upper crust would have the fancy chain... what about the middle guys? Was tehre padded armor of any sort of this time preiod?
And yet, historical suggestions of improvisation like this are extremely rare! You'd think if such thinking was common, it would show up somewhere. We'd have depictions of it, or some mention in literature. But there's nothing. The only reasonable historical conclusion is that people who did not have mail "made do" with just shields and sometimes helmets. (You can drag in scale and lamellar armor if you widen the geographical limits and timespan, of course!)Mail, while superfluous for us, would be the most important defense for a fighting man in the Viking Age, and a 'lower level' guy would want to come as close to that as possible. Knowing they were going into a fight, it seems likely they would have been creative as their later medieval descendants in coming up with ways to protect their centers of mass with the materials available to them.
Sorry, that doesn't help for SCA combat!
Matthew
Re: I wanna be a VIKING
A shield is very good body armour if you're fighting in a shieldwall in the style of many earl mediaeval peoples, like say the vikings.
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
The wife is sniffing around at getting me some sort of improved aventail for my helmet for Xmas. Right now I'm using the "Oh shit I need an aventail right now" $35 butted galvanized model from Therion Arms, and it's falling apart (as expected).
What do I tell her to get me? Round rings or flat is the big question, followed by riveted or welded. I don't care what's accurate, I'm telling her stainless for the material.
What do I tell her to get me? Round rings or flat is the big question, followed by riveted or welded. I don't care what's accurate, I'm telling her stainless for the material.
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Round riveted is period.
Flat riveted looks denser and most hauberks that hold up are made in this, it's the common go-to for people not using butted since it looks cooler thn round rings.
Welded holds up better that riveted, is more expensive, however, personally, I don't quite like the look.
I say riveted flat, it's cooler.
Flat riveted looks denser and most hauberks that hold up are made in this, it's the common go-to for people not using butted since it looks cooler thn round rings.
Welded holds up better that riveted, is more expensive, however, personally, I don't quite like the look.
I say riveted flat, it's cooler.
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Could I get some opinions on this picture, then?
Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Under exposed, poor color saturation....
No seriously,I assume you are looking at the kits and wanting feed back on 'em. Now, don't know anyone in this picture and as far as the SCA goes, they have made a very good attempt. Now, if ya wanna be a 'Viking'..... Numbered from left to right / top to bottom
1. Mail - Good, Gorget - could be hidden, Not sure what kind of helm but it doesn't seem to have the right lines.
2. Mail - good, Helm - seems to be a Norman. Wish I could see more of the kit! Either 1 or 2 is wearing red on their lower legs, whichever one needs period footwear.
3. Mail - good, Helm - not accurate to the Viking Age. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a helm like that except in the SCA. Dane Axe, very good! Gaunt - well we have to make some concessions to the SCA rules set a pass. Leg wraps are an impending disaster it seems. Needs period footwear. NB: no exposed arm armour - EXCELLENT!
4. EXCELLENT Rus! Crosshilt- WOO HOO The only things I would change would be the helm and not use the lenticular shield with that impression.
Unnumbered fella behind the Rus - Legwraps good, pants good.Crosshilt- WOO HOO That's all I can see
5. I'd drop the body armor, gorget and get some period footwear. There is something funky going on with the helm too but I can't see it clearly enough.
6. No comment. Not enough visble
7. Looks GOOD! Can't tell if the shoes are right or not. Excellent impression!
8. Helm is wrong, exposed arm armor, Can't tell if that is mail under something else. Pants need to be closer to the leg. Foot gear.
9. Cannot think of anything to improve on this kit. Well maybe a white belt, but YMMV....
No seriously,I assume you are looking at the kits and wanting feed back on 'em. Now, don't know anyone in this picture and as far as the SCA goes, they have made a very good attempt. Now, if ya wanna be a 'Viking'..... Numbered from left to right / top to bottom
1. Mail - Good, Gorget - could be hidden, Not sure what kind of helm but it doesn't seem to have the right lines.
2. Mail - good, Helm - seems to be a Norman. Wish I could see more of the kit! Either 1 or 2 is wearing red on their lower legs, whichever one needs period footwear.
3. Mail - good, Helm - not accurate to the Viking Age. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a helm like that except in the SCA. Dane Axe, very good! Gaunt - well we have to make some concessions to the SCA rules set a pass. Leg wraps are an impending disaster it seems. Needs period footwear. NB: no exposed arm armour - EXCELLENT!
4. EXCELLENT Rus! Crosshilt- WOO HOO The only things I would change would be the helm and not use the lenticular shield with that impression.
Unnumbered fella behind the Rus - Legwraps good, pants good.Crosshilt- WOO HOO That's all I can see
5. I'd drop the body armor, gorget and get some period footwear. There is something funky going on with the helm too but I can't see it clearly enough.
6. No comment. Not enough visble
7. Looks GOOD! Can't tell if the shoes are right or not. Excellent impression!
8. Helm is wrong, exposed arm armor, Can't tell if that is mail under something else. Pants need to be closer to the leg. Foot gear.
9. Cannot think of anything to improve on this kit. Well maybe a white belt, but YMMV....
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Not a bad critique however I would add that #9, helm and shield too far apart on the timeline. That huge Norman Kite was used by Vikings at the end (pretty much everyone was) but the helm is very early in the Viking age. It would look better with a round shield.Haldan wrote:Under exposed, poor color saturation....
No seriously,I assume you are looking at the kits and wanting feed back on 'em. Now, don't know anyone in this picture and as far as the SCA goes, they have made a very good attempt. Now, if ya wanna be a 'Viking'..... Numbered from left to right / top to bottom
1. Mail - Good, Gorget - could be hidden, Not sure what kind of helm but it doesn't seem to have the right lines.
2. Mail - good, Helm - seems to be a Norman. Wish I could see more of the kit! Either 1 or 2 is wearing red on their lower legs, whichever one needs period footwear.
3. Mail - good, Helm - not accurate to the Viking Age. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a helm like that except in the SCA. Dane Axe, very good! Gaunt - well we have to make some concessions to the SCA rules set a pass. Leg wraps are an impending disaster it seems. Needs period footwear. NB: no exposed arm armour - EXCELLENT!
4. EXCELLENT Rus! Crosshilt- WOO HOO The only things I would change would be the helm and not use the lenticular shield with that impression.
Unnumbered fella behind the Rus - Legwraps good, pants good.Crosshilt- WOO HOO That's all I can see
5. I'd drop the body armor, gorget and get some period footwear. There is something funky going on with the helm too but I can't see it clearly enough.
6. No comment. Not enough visble
7. Looks GOOD! Can't tell if the shoes are right or not. Excellent impression!
8. Helm is wrong, exposed arm armor, Can't tell if that is mail under something else. Pants need to be closer to the leg. Foot gear.
9. Cannot think of anything to improve on this kit. Well maybe a white belt, but YMMV....
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Anybody have ideas for an SCA-legal female viking warrior? Obviously the valkyries, I believe, are understood to have ridden into battle with bare breasts and that's right out, hehe. But are there any thoughts or should I just go with a male style tunic?
How terribly anachronistic is this costume from "Vikings"?
How terribly anachronistic is this costume from "Vikings"?
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
The short answer is that you'd probably wear most of the same kit as a male warrior. Maybe some feminine details, but it's hard to say what they'd be - there's a sword hilt style found in a few female graves of the period. Bare-breasted valkyries sound fun, but they're mythical, so they're not great role models.
She looks more like fantasy than history to me. The mail shirt looks like it's got all sorts of random stuff going on that makes no sense I can see, and I've never seen anything that looks like that split skirt in a Scandinavian context.
She looks more like fantasy than history to me. The mail shirt looks like it's got all sorts of random stuff going on that makes no sense I can see, and I've never seen anything that looks like that split skirt in a Scandinavian context.
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"I've schlepped ugly gear about the field. It does not inspire -- not me, not anybody. Better to try and make it pretty." - Konstantin the Red
Former armourer at Darkwood Armory, now just armouring a bit for fun.
"I've schlepped ugly gear about the field. It does not inspire -- not me, not anybody. Better to try and make it pretty." - Konstantin the Red
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
This is a fairly decent female Viking warrior. Shield "could/should" be different but it works.
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Hertogi ThorvaldR Skegglauss, Drachenwald KSCA
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
One of the sagas - and I can't quote it right now, but I've read it - specifically mentions a woman who puts on trousers "like a man" and goes to fight just as a man would. It's the only instance I know of where a woman goes a-Viking, and she wore the same kit as the men.Lorccan wrote:The short answer is that you'd probably wear most of the same kit as a male warrior. Maybe some feminine details, but it's hard to say what they'd be - there's a sword hilt style found in a few female graves of the period. Bare-breasted valkyries sound fun, but they're mythical, so they're not great role models.
She looks more like fantasy than history to me. The mail shirt looks like it's got all sorts of random stuff going on that makes no sense I can see, and I've never seen anything that looks like that split skirt in a Scandinavian context.
Typically, women had prescribed (and very important) roles in Viking society, which generally did not include combat. However, I don't believe they were expressly barred from it either. And some grave finds have been female and have contained weapons.
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Actually, a woman wearing trousers as a man is one of the valid reasons for divorce in Norse society.thewhaleshark wrote:One of the sagas - and I can't quote it right now, but I've read it - specifically mentions a woman who puts on trousers "like a man" and goes to fight just as a man would.
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Also note that when Hollywood dresses a woman in men's clothing, or for a masculine occupation, she is then required to cover her forearms with leather or darkened metal bracers. Cuz forearms count as genitalia in Hollywood....
Matthew
Matthew
Re: I wanna be a VIKING
*gasp*Kephri wrote:Anybody have ideas for an SCA-legal female viking warrior? Obviously the valkyries, I believe, are understood to have ridden into battle with bare breasts and that's right out, hehe. But are there any thoughts or should I just go with a male style tunic?
How terribly anachronistic is this costume from "Vikings"?
That's Kathryn Winnick. What costume? lol
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
NOT helpful.Paladin74 wrote:*gasp*
That's Kathryn Winnick. What costume? lol
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Thaddeus von Orlamunde
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Re: I wanna be a VIKING
Hey all, I'm also a female person looking to go a-viking, like Hervör, Thorbjorn, Lagerda, and Brunhilde. I will need to stick to SCA armoring rules. Ideally, I'm shooting for 9th century Dane, a "maiden king" persona in the typical "born a woman, wears man clothes and takes a male name before settling down" fashion.
I've read through this thread and the other viking one, and while I've decided against lamellar and mail (mostly for weight, though the saga of Hervör says she wears a byrnie) I'm thinking about some sort of combination of hard and soft armor under tunic and trews, wit leather gauntlets and turnshoes... Any other suggestions? I'm pretty darn petite and while weight is a concern, getting my butt whupped in ways that leave permanent marks is a pretty pressing concern, too. Thanks all!
Refr Raske
I've read through this thread and the other viking one, and while I've decided against lamellar and mail (mostly for weight, though the saga of Hervör says she wears a byrnie) I'm thinking about some sort of combination of hard and soft armor under tunic and trews, wit leather gauntlets and turnshoes... Any other suggestions? I'm pretty darn petite and while weight is a concern, getting my butt whupped in ways that leave permanent marks is a pretty pressing concern, too. Thanks all!
Refr Raske
Ræv Raske
Re: I wanna be a VIKING
He Refr. Check out Zoombag. Personally, I don't use it, but a lot of people who do hidden armor (which sounds like what you want to do) swear by it. You'll want it for body protection, and low-profile elbows/knees. HTH
Robert The Stout
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