I wanna be a LANDSKNECHT

woodwose · Post by **woodwose** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:19 am

Maeryk, are you talking about the guy second from the left in that woodcut? There is a similar looking hat (with a magical-ass-ton of feathers like that one) on the head of the "Bernese Banner Bearer", by Master CS, c. 1500, page 19 of Osprey's Landsknecht Soldier book. If I was going to try making that, my first attempt would start with what I guess people are calling a "starfish hat" - a wide brimmed hat with the brim cut radialy at intervals, or with eight or ten 6 to 8 inch rectangles sewn on as a brim. Once those are sewn on, tightly roll them up and tack them around the crown of the hat and tack them evenly to each other. Next you need a long ribbon of fabric (I would probably use silk in a contrasting color, just a long piece that has been folded over and machine sewn into a tube then turned so the seams are on the inside - pretty much how I make garters, but this one might need to be two of my garters sewn together end to end). Now start wrapping this length arount the rolled brim by sticking one end into the split between the rolled sections and tack it in place. Wrap it spirally around the rolled brim using the spaces between the 8 or 10 brim sections as your lacing holes. A magical-ass-ton of feathers can then be stuffed vertically between the rolled brim and the top of the hat, they probably need to be sewn in place.
There are other "personal pan pizza" size hats, for any of them I would start by thinking about hats with larger brims and just making the brim less wide by either drafting scaling it down to be less wide while drafting the pattern, or making it with a wide brim and folding the brim back and tacking the outer edge to the inner edge near the base of the crown of the hat.

woodwose · Post by **woodwose** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:48 am

A while after posting my last post I went out to my shop where I randomly came across a higher resolution printout of that woodcut from the Triumph of Maximilian series with the guys with messers and hand pavises. What I thought was the rolled up brim on the second guy's hat is actually a laurel wreath, which they all are wearing (as are most people in the Triumph, even a lot of the animals wear them), which sucks because they often obscure details of hats - though it is still a great resource... I don't think this has been posted here yet: http://www-classic.uni-graz.at/ubwww/so ... riumphzug/ it was, I believe, colored in the 17th or 18th century, but the resolution is pretty good.

Uadahlrich · Post by **Uadahlrich** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:45 am

DuuUUUDE!!!

Does anyone have any dealings with this manufacturer?
There are some majorly sweet looking pretties on their site.

www.armorymarek.com

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:38 am

Does anyone have any evidence of Landsknechts using chainmaille sabatons?

I've been trying to figure a way to cover my SCA fighting boots. I'm NOT fighting in cowmouths, and I was wondering if mail "spats" would be a decent comprimise?

GvR · Post by **GvR** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:24 pm

I've not seen any evidence, but why not make some oversized stockings and faux shoes to cover your boots?

Dragon_Argent · Post by **Dragon_Argent** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:09 pm

InsaneIrish wrote:Does anyone have any evidence of Landsknechts using chainmaille sabatons?

I've been trying to figure a way to cover my SCA fighting boots. I'm NOT fighting in cowmouths, and I was wondering if mail "spats" would be a decent comprimise?

there are images of Landsknechts wearing ankle boots - I would go with that. I can't see mail sabbatons being used!

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:53 am

Dragon_Argent wrote:
there are images of Landsknechts wearing ankle boots - I would go with that. I can't see mail sabbatons being used!

Unfortunately actual period footwear is out. I have flat feet and require the arch support an cushioning that modern foowear provides. Believe me, I WISH I could, but to many factors prevent me from doing so.

Which is why I am looking for a period plausible covering.

Michiel van Ravenstein · Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:22 am

Aiden,

I've thought about making a landsknecht kit (for obvious reasons) and because I've gotten interested in them. I also wouldn't want to wear slippers.

It seems to me that one of the guys in that Urs Graf sketch you posted above may be wearing thigh or knee-length boots. He has a rock with banding on and his back turned. I also know there's a Durer painting of a militant saint (can't remember the name) who's wearing a getup with a breastplate, slashed doublet and hose, and the hairnet you see in a lot of the landsknecht art. He also has knee-length boots.

I can't recall what your current footwear looks like, but maybe you could find a pair of tall boots and add in arch support? Or maybe you could sew some sort of extensions on to your current boots, near the ankle. It wouldn't look dead on, but it would be lower profile and plausible.

Good luck

(PS - thanks again for the crash space at Toys for Tots)

Karl Helweg · Post by **Karl Helweg** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:08 pm

Uadahlrich · Post by **Uadahlrich** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:59 am

This is interesting. Has anyone gotten a chance to try this weapon out?

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... Langmesser+

I am wondering if it might be a possible candidate for use in SCA Cut and Thrust.

woodwose · Post by **woodwose** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:40 pm

Uadahlrich wrote:This is interesting. Has anyone gotten a chance to try this weapon out?

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... Langmesser+

I am wondering if it might be a possible candidate for use in SCA Cut and Thrust.

Wow, I hope so. I remember hearing something about Hanwei swords back when I was doing rebated steel stuff and apprenticed to a smith/arms dealer, but it was so long ago that I don't remember if what I heard was good stuff or bad stuff... does anyone know if the crossguard on hanwei swords are cast, or if they are forged?

Peikko · Post by **Peikko** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:40 am

Uadahlrich wrote:This is interesting. Has anyone gotten a chance to try this weapon out?

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... Langmesser+

I am wondering if it might be a possible candidate for use in SCA Cut and Thrust.

I can't speak to whether it'll be SCA cut & thrust legal...but us HEMA types are excited by this for similar applications.

Micah Nelson · Post by **Micah Nelson** » Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:46 am

InsaneIrish wrote:
Dragon_Argent wrote:
there are images of Landsknechts wearing ankle boots - I would go with that. I can't see mail sabbatons being used!
Unfortunately actual period footwear is out. I have flat feet and require the arch support an cushioning that modern foowear provides. Believe me, I WISH I could, but to many factors prevent me from doing so.

Which is why I am looking for a period plausible covering.

Have you thought about Vibram soled boots w/ arch support inserts?

Karl Helweg · Post by **Karl Helweg** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:13 pm

Some nice details here including the pewterware and the lack of archery range safety.

wcanne · Post by **wcanne** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:53 pm

My wife (Fredeburg) forwarded this link to a tournament helm the Metropolitan Museum has.
The 3rd detailed picture includes the helmet liner, shown below.

Unfortunately, it also says the item is not on display. BUT, I am going to email them to see if any more detail on the piece, and any similar ones, can be given.

http://metmuseum.org/collections/search ... 4806?img=2

Fearghus Macildubh · Post by **Fearghus Macildubh** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:03 am

Karl,
I like the band on horseback. Because every melee should have a soundtrack!

Karl Helweg · Post by **Karl Helweg** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:46 pm

Fearghus Macildubh wrote:Karl,
I like the band on horseback. Because every melee should have a soundtrack!

It seems to be a recurring theme.

Karl Helweg · Post by **Karl Helweg** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:20 pm

http://www.facebook.com/groups/203689613590/ or Landsknecht.org on Facebook.

Uadahlrich · Post by **Uadahlrich** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:02 am

Got a new cook pot for the camp.
Less than $50 delivered (to Northern Kentucky) from;

http://www.readydepot.com

coreythompsonhm · Post by **coreythompsonhm** » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:46 pm

This thread has been a good read so far, I'm looking forward to doing some more research and getting a Lansknecht kit started!

Rey · Post by **Rey** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:34 pm

I kept seeing fighters in the SCA pairing wearing Waffenrocks with a Sallet. I've got a sallet and was looking to pair it with a waffenrock as well but I can't find any pictures that support this. Anyone have any documentation or was it just not done.

Rey

Fearghus Macildubh · Post by **Fearghus Macildubh** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:55 pm

I was going to say of course it was done, then I checked the series of woodcut images I have saved. I couldn't find an image of a waffenrock worn with a sallet. I also checked the pdf of the Hofkleiderbuch der Herzogs Wilhelm und Albrecht, which is a Saxon manuscript from the 1500s showing the household livery of the Dukes of Saxony. Lots of waffenrocks, but they are worn with armets, burgonets or just hats.

Godric of Castlemont · Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:50 am

A buddy of mine expressed some interest in a landsknecht kit and I though I would help him along, I am looking for some images of smaller hand held matchlocks (pistols) that I could see about recreating in my shop. There seems to be a decent amount of wheellocks out there but I just don't see that many matchlocks. Any help would be welcome.

Antonio · Post by **Antonio** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:45 pm

As far as I recall, pistols weren't really used as matchlocks, because

1) Tricky for cavalry to manage a burning fuse, and a horse at the same time
2) The scent of burning would tend to alert guards to your assassination attempt.

Sir Wilhelm · Post by **Sir Wilhelm** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:15 pm

Pistols would be wheel locks.

Godric of Castlemont · Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:41 pm

Huh? Ok, Wheellock it is, that would explain why I don't see many smaller matchlocks.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:34 pm

Godric of Castlemont wrote:Huh? Ok, Wheellock it is, that would explain why I don't see many smaller matchlocks.

AND Landsknechts would probably not be carrying wheel lock pistols. There were divisions of Arquebusers but pistols were a nobleman's toy. Or post period for an SCA persona.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:43 pm

Fearghus Macildubh wrote:I was going to say of course it was done, then I checked the series of woodcut images I have saved. I couldn't find an image of a waffenrock worn with a sallet. I also checked the pdf of the Hofkleiderbuch der Herzogs Wilhelm und Albrecht, which is a Saxon manuscript from the 1500s showing the household livery of the Dukes of Saxony. Lots of waffenrocks, but they are worn with armets, burgonets or just hats.

Lower right hand corner, Looks like a Sallet and Rock (with the archers)

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:51 pm

From 1555, in the Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin (SBB)
Kriegsordnung, Ms. boruss. fol. 1254
Feel free to use the quick nav on the left, or use the arrows at the top.
http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin. ... MDLOG_0005
http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin. ... MDLOG_0006
etc.

phylup · Post by **phylup** » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:24 pm

Anyone know where i can find information and hopefully images of camp frau landsknecht winter/cold weather clothing. I have seen 2 images from the landsknecht osprey book but that it, and they are poor quality as far go figuring out how to recreate the clothing....
Thanks for any help in advance

BjornVarangian · Post by **BjornVarangian** » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:12 pm

Hi, this thread has been very helpful, though its a lot to read. I am an SCA fighter, and want to depict a Landsknecht. So I have the problem of needing to wear a helm. I know the Burgonet and Sallet are the more acurate styles but I would really like to be able to have a helm for SCA that would not limit my vision quite so much. (This may have already been answered and I missed it) Would a kettle helm be 'close enough'? Perhaps for someone of low rank? I'm not trying to win any awards for being completely period and documented, but I don't want to insult the historians with blatant inaccuracy.
Thanks

Karl Helweg · Post by **Karl Helweg** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:21 am

BjornVarangian wrote:Hi, this thread has been very helpful, though its a lot to read. I am an SCA fighter, and want to depict a Landsknecht. So I have the problem of needing to wear a helm. I know the Burgonet and Sallet are the more acurate styles but I would really like to be able to have a helm for SCA that would not limit my vision quite so much. (This may have already been answered and I missed it) Would a kettle helm be 'close enough'? Perhaps for someone of low rank? I'm not trying to win any awards for being completely period and documented, but I don't want to insult the historians with blatant inaccuracy.
Thanks

Welcome Bjorn - there were bar faced Sturmburgonets like the ones in the Triumph of Maximillian (check your Osprey books):

This left one is made by http://www.illusionarmoring.com/ who I have had good dealings with but contact him first to get delivery estimates. The right hand suit is just a cool original. While sallets are sexy I cannot find one shown on a Landsknecht but the occasional early Swiss Reislaufer like in the above painting. Later Landsknechts sometimes wore Spanish style Morions too then even early lobster tailed helms.

BjornVarangian · Post by **BjornVarangian** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:37 am

Wow, thank you Karl, that was a great response, the pictures helped a lot. I think a Morion would be perfect for what I'm going for. Thanks again.

Karl Helweg · Post by **Karl Helweg** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:45 am

BjornVarangian wrote:Wow, thank you Karl, that was a great response, the pictures helped a lot. I think a Morion would be perfect for what I'm going for. Thanks again.

There are a couple Morion makers. Here is a picture of Illusion's"

Non-combat dress morions are pretty cheap and often on Ebay. Coincidentally the Swiss Guard wears them:http://www.wdtprs.com/images/06_05_06_swear2.jpg

BjornVarangian · Post by **BjornVarangian** » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:37 pm

Haha, I think upon seeing my greatsword no one will mistake me for Swiss or Spanish. Thank you again for all your help. I will check out various armorer's morions.

I wanna be a LANDSKNECHT

Merry Landsknecht Christmas!

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