I wanna be a CONQUISTADOR

Post by JT » Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:34 am

I mean, really... just the sound of it make me shiver. It's even better than "landsknecht" in that regard.

Seriously... Cortez, age of exploration (or is this after that?), eh-Spanish conquering kniggit.

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:55 am

Ah, the spanish. A subject that is near & dear to my heart. It's a good way to be a 'period' american without having to resort to being (shudder) english.

One word of warning. The conquistadores undeniably did a lot of seriously heinous things, which some local Native American cultures still remember. Don't be surprised if you offend someone with your portrayal. Just keep in mind that there are two sides to every story, and not everybody will like your side. And that's ok.

There are a number of places to start. The first would be the history you learned in school - Conquistadors were ALL OVER the place, including as far north as the Carolinas & Tennessee in the states. Most of the conquistadors began in S. America or Florida, and worked their way around exploring, pillaging, converting, and adventuring.

There's a group in Florida that does it Right (tm), at least in my opinion. Calderon's Company -
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/calderon/

The state of Florida also has a good basic history of the Conquistadores, including Hernando de Soto's trails through the US.
http://www.floridahistory.com/inset44.html

Recently, in western North Carolina (my home state!) the ruins of one of Hernando de Soto's outposts has been discovered. You can read the paper about it here -
http://www.warren-wilson.edu/~arch/Moorepaper.html

A side note - I'd LOVE to do some LH stuff based around De Soto's campaigns & outposts in the Carolinas. If you're interested, contact me.

That's a good start on the North American stuff. As far as the South American stuff goes, there's a few works that survived written by those who went with some of the Conquistadores. The references escape me right now because I'm at work, but maybe Sunday night at home I'll dig through my library and post some references.

I'll also post some things about the equipment the conquistadores had and used. Stay tuned! more to come!

Alejandro

Woeg · Post by **Woeg** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:15 am

Ah, the Conquistador, bane of my existance as a Spaniard in the SCA! Seriously, do y'all know how hard it is portraying a spaniard *pre* New World, and finding good sources?

However, for those who love the Conquistadors, there is one site that I find absolutely fantastic:

Calderon's Company

Of particular interest is their Coronado Equipment List, c.1540.

There is nothing I could type up that could equal the amount of work these good people have put into their page. I highly advise it.

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Woeg · Post by **Woeg** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:17 am

Alejandro, you fiend! You have beaten me to the punch!

I'm not in the Carolinas, but I am in Georgia, which is fairly close...I may be interested. Contact me at woegman@gmail.com and lets talk!

Karl Helweg · Post by **Karl Helweg** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:00 am

http://antiquity.ac.uk/ProjGall/moore/

This dig is rewriting NC histroy. The rumor is that they plan to rebuild this Spanish fort on the site when the dig is complete (6 months to 6 years) but some of the diggers (sorry, archeo-americans) feel threatened by this so it may be a while be fore we have reeneactments there. The head guy is pretty cool though. Start getting you kits together. Notive the two links of maille! That sure tells us a lot!

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:10 pm

I'm finally at home AND remembering to post some sources. We've taken a quick look at the internet. Let's look at printed material now. It really does help if you can read Spanish, but there are a number of good sources in ingles.

The easiest and most available to start with is Osprey, of course.
The Conquistador, 1492-1550
John Pohl, illustrated by Adam Hook
ISBN - 1841761753
Mr. Pohl is an archeologist at UCLA specializing in Native American cultures & the rise of the Aztec Empire. The illustrations are pretty good, and divided pretty evenly between Native Americans and Europeans.

Cortes and the Downfall of the Aztec Empire
by Jon Manchip White
ISBN - 0786702710
Carroll & Graf Publishers, New York, 1971
An excellent work and good primer on Cortes' expeditions.

But the best accounts are native ones, and I don't just mean Native Americans.

The Account: Alvar Nunez Cabeza de Vaca's Relacion
An Annotated Translation by Martin A. Favata and Jose B. Fernandez
ISBN - 1558850600
Arte Publico Press, University of Houston, Houston, Texas 1993
If you're going to get translations, try & make sure that the translations are from native speakers. Cabeza de Vaca (yes, his name is Cow-head) first had his account published in 1542 in Spain. He traveled in one of the first expeditions into North America, taking place from 1528-1536 with 250 men and 26 horses. This predates the famous De Soto expeditions, and was one of the sparks for it. Fascinating stuff.

How were Conquistadors equipped? The best thing is slim little manual;
Arms and Armor of the Conquistador, 1492-1600
No ISBN, pub by Florida Museum of Natual History in 1990
This was written by Walter Karcheski, Jr., working in the Higgins Armory Museum (yay!), and contains extensive descriptions and pictures of archeological recoveries concerning arms & armour during the Conquistador 'period'. Syke's Sutlering occasionally carries this book at Pennsic.

One revelation; many of the conquistadores found that mail shirts were the best defense against many of stone weapons that the Native Americans employed against them, and a full mail shirt from the 15th/16th century is still at the Higgins (it weighs, by the way, 8lbs 9oz, and is rivetted).

A lot of their gear seems to have been patched together using basic 1500's continental armour, with additions and subtractions according to fiscal means, physical availability, and simple need. Many times in South America it seems the air was too humid for muskets, so they went back to crossbows.

I"m not really a Conquistador expert - my real interest is in the Netherland campaigns and the Armada. But, these ought to get you started!

More stuff as it arises.

Alejandro

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Thu May 26, 2005 7:49 am

The Hapsburg dominions were vast, and you don't have to be Spanish to be in the New World. There are Frenchmen at Fort Caroline (Jacksonville, FL), Portuguese in Brazil and with Hernando de Soto in the Southeastern US, and Germans in Venezuela.

Adarga info:
http://historywired.si.edu/detail.cfm?ID=176

Portuguese swords:
http://www.arscives.com/bladesign/discoverieswords.htm

Marozzo's contempoary (for Soto and Coronado) manual:
http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~wew/fencing/mar ... illus.html

Though not armor related, every conquistador should be familiar with the Requerimiento. The early version in English:
http://www.dickinson.edu/~borges/Resour ... miento.htm

And the Spanish text for Pizarro, Soto, and Coronado, beginning, "De parte del Emperador...":
http://www14.brinkster.com/docuhistoigl ... miento.htm

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Tue May 31, 2005 11:44 am

If you opt for the North American entrada of Hernando de Soto, there are primary sources available.

Ranjel, Soto's personal secretary's account:

http://www.floridahistory.com/rangel1.html

The Gentleman of Elvas, a Portuguese member of the expedition:

http://www.siu.edu/~anthro/muller/Elvas.htm

Biedma, the representative of Emperor Charles V:

http://www.siu.edu/~anthro/muller/Biedm ... a_1544.htm

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:12 pm

Me to.... they had some flashy armour...Yes?
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/h ... atroll.jpg
My attempt so far at a kit.

Ps: The morion helm is the easy one to build. The logic behind the design is obvious...

As an engineer, I do not understand the why of the very large combs.
Some day I would like to copy the one with all the nice designs etched into it.

Rittmeister Frye · Post by **Rittmeister Frye** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:07 pm

Long ago (back in '92) my companiero's and I did a series of presentations on the colonizing expedition of Don Juan de Onate into New Mexico in 1598. We did some school groups in Albuquerque, as well as a presentation at El Moro National Monument east of there (where Onate carved his name in the cliff face in 1605, IIRC). We also did a living history encampment at Coronado State Park in Bernalillo, and another one at las Golandrinas village, near Santa Fe.

Most of our research came from the volumes published by University of New Mexico Press in 1953, "Don Juan de Onate, Colonizer of New Mexico, 1598-1628" edited by George P. Hammond and Agapito Rey. There are several in-depth musters that were taken prior to the outset of the expedition, recorded by notaries in fine Spanish bureacratic form which detail darned near EVERYTHING that the colonists brought with them, as well as what Onate was providing for his followers. Hammond and Rey also edited the "Narratives of the Coronado Expedition, 1540-1542" which has almost as much detail on that expedition, and as such is closer to the actual Conquistadores of the 1520's. Most major university libraries ought to have copies.

In any case, our reception was quite warm from the folks in New Mexico, as we were portraying their own ancestors for the most part. It's a fascinating era and chapter in history, and sadly our own Anglo-centric history has been far to influenced by the Tudor and Valois political propaganda from the era. Giving the history a fair read reveals a story every bit as interesting and outrageous as our own Anglo-American Frontier experience.

Cheers!

Gordon

Richard von Giessen · Post by **Richard von Giessen** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:02 am

Where can I find a good conquistadore era matchlock? I am in east TN and also need some more conquistadores interested in forming a local group here.

Rittmeister Frye · Post by **Rittmeister Frye** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:52 am

Richard;

This page from the Muzzleloading Forum has a list of most of the makers of pre-flintlock firearms in the US and some in Europe:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ubbth ... e=0#160735

The man to talk to is John Buck, he's the only one in full production right now of matchlocks. He can make a good early 16th Century matchlock for you with no problem. He's in VA, and his contact info is on the page listed. However he prefers to do business by phone:
(434) 724-1607

Also try out Historic Enterprises, as they may still have in stock, ready to ship, some of their late-15th Century matchlocks. Such weapons were still in every-day use in Europe as late as 1525 we know, and as such would have formed a part of the followers of Cortez's equipments.
http://www.historicenterprises.com/

I hope that this helps,

Cheers,

Gordon

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:56 pm

El Conquistadore here!! Not.

For good period firearms, you could also buy from Syke's Sutlering. They're out of northern VA, I think?

http://sykesutler.home.att.net/

I've owned a couple oftheir irish hand gonnes. Good stuff.

Lawrence Parreira · Post by **Lawrence Parreira** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:46 pm

Was the armor and dress of the Spanish Conquistador and the Portuguese Conquistador the same. Im Portuguese, and I know that weve been enemies of Spain for as long as both nations have existed, so I dont know if we shared anything with Spain. Is anybody aware of information on this?

Rittmeister Frye · Post by **Rittmeister Frye** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:27 pm

Parreira do Portugal wrote:Was the armor and dress of the Spanish Conquistador and the Portuguese Conquistador the same. Im Portuguese, and I know that weve been enemies of Spain for as long as both nations have existed, so I dont know if we shared anything with Spain. Is anybody aware of information on this?

According to "The Gentleman of Elvas", the Portuguese of the de Soto Expedition were all arrayed in fine shirts of maille with strong, straight lances, while the Castillians were uniformly armed in rusty maille with crooked lances. Allowing for the fairly obvious jingoism, one can conclude that they were armed pretty much in the same fashion. From what I can tell, most Iberian armour fashions were pretty closely associated with each other, and it would be somewhat surprising if they were armed in a significantly different manner.

Cheers!

Gordon

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:49 am

Parreira do Portugal wrote:Was the armor and dress of the Spanish Conquistador and the Portuguese Conquistador the same. Im Portuguese, and I know that weve been enemies of Spain for as long as both nations have existed, so I dont know if we shared anything with Spain. Is anybody aware of information on this?

I didn't know there was enmity.

I was treated very well during my brief stay in Lisbon. I do recall that Felipe el Segundo de Espana basically sort of did a 'corporate takeover' of the Portuguese throne when the King of Portugal died, and the Portugese later regained their independence. So, based, on that, I would posit that in that time period, spanish = portuguese.

Portuguese is a beautiful language, prettier than french. It's on my list of languages to learn.

Lawrence Parreira · Post by **Lawrence Parreira** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:36 am

I know this was witten a while back so I dont know if Baron Alejandro is gong to read this but.......theres no ill feelings now, but at that time period Portugal and Spain were not the friendliest of neighbors. Check out the Battle of Aljubarrota and some of the other "friendly" excursions the Spanish liked to take into Portugal. I like the fact that you call Spain's march on Portugal as a "corporate" takeover. But it was only after King Sabastiao destroyed our army and got himself killed in an invasion of North Africa that Spain was able to take Portugal's throne. All past attempts by the Spanish to conquer Portugal had met with disaster (Spanish rule only lasted 60 years; from 1580-1640). Yeah, but no hard feelings. :wink:

Ps: Id like to learn Portuguese too, but I just havent gotten around to it.

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:40 am

People drag up all sorts of historical stuff from hundreds of years ago as an excuse to go kill each other. Doomed to repeat history and all that!

In other news, I recently found out about VÃ¡squez de AyllÃ³n, who apparently made it as far north as the Chesapeake Bay, and may have founded a settlement near Jamestown!

I'm sooooo using that as an excuse to show up at Jamestown in full conquistador gear and yell "We were here first!" :lol:

Except it should probably be "EstÃ¡bamos aquÃ primeros!"

Lawrence Parreira · Post by **Lawrence Parreira** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:42 pm

I apologize if my words seem angry. Like I said, neither I, nor any of the other Portuguese people I know hold any grudges or bad feelings, there's no reason for it. All im saying is during that time period, there would have been some animosity.

Lawrence Parreira · Post by **Lawrence Parreira** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:55 pm

By the way, how did your LH idea work out? Do you know of any related groups in California?

Lawrence Parreira · Post by **Lawrence Parreira** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 3:49 pm

Did Conquistadors' wear backplates (in combination with a peascod breastplate and tassets)? Or did they just strap on the breastpate?

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:16 pm

I kind of think that'd be related to how rich the conquistador in question was. If he could afford it, durn straight he'd have a backplate. *I'm* getting one, in any case.

As far as the LH thing, well, that'd require spare time. HAHAHAHAHA

iomtalach · Post by **iomtalach** » Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:29 pm

Yeah... Portugal and Spain...Not friends. Still aren't, really, even though "Cortes Ingles" is one of the more popular department stores. At best, the Portugeuse like the Spanish as much as the Canadians like the Americans. Ahem.

Portuguese gear is similiar enough to Spanish that you could cheat it and most people won't notice. If you get the chance, a visit to the Musee Militare in Lisbon will show you some lovely differences. Wish I did more sketches of the armour while I was there, but I was more focussed on the swords.

Dom Alvarro

Robert of Canterbury · Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:26 am

Good Discussion on appropriate mail

Bob H · Post by **Bob H** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:12 pm

Halberds wrote:As an engineer, I do not understand the why of the very large combs.

Because when they first met, Montezuma said "So ... you're Cortez? I thought you'd be taller."

juan · Post by **juan** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:40 pm

A period manuscript that is profusely illustrated, showing many depictions of both Spaniards and Incas, is Felipe Guaman Poma's 1615 book-length letter to the king of Spain, Nueva Coronica Y Buen Gobierno. <a href="http://www.kb.dk/permalink/2006/poma/ti ... /image/</a>, documenting what the author learned and observed on a two-decade sojourn throughout the kingdom.

Of particular interest in this topic will be <a href="http://www.kb.dk/permalink/2006/poma/37 ... 0">Chapter 19</a> on the Conquest, and Chapters <a href="http://www.kb.dk/permalink/2006/poma/43 ... 153">20</a>, <a href="http://www.kb.dk/permalink/2006/poma/49 ... 378">21</a>, <a href="http://www.kb.dk/permalink/2006/poma/56 ... 024">22</a>, <a href="http://www.kb.dk/permalink/2006/poma/57 ... 137">23</a>, and <a href="http://www.kb.dk/permalink/2006/poma/68 ... 206">24</a> on the colonial administration.

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:07 pm

Good video of riding in the jinete style from National Geographic's Guns, Germs, and Steel starting at 2:22.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQkuJ-do ... re=related

Roland Brokentooth · Post by **Roland Brokentooth** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:05 pm

Who makes a good fencing morion?

thaddeusmoore · Post by **thaddeusmoore** » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:23 pm

Baron Alejandro wrote:
<SNIP>

How were Conquistadors equipped? The best thing is slim little manual;
Arms and Armor of the Conquistador, 1492-1600
No ISBN, pub by Florida Museum of Natual History in 1990
This was written by Walter Karcheski, Jr., working in the Higgins Armory Museum (yay!), and contains extensive descriptions and pictures of archeological recoveries concerning arms & armour during the Conquistador 'period'. Syke's Sutlering occasionally carries this book at Pennsic.

<SNIP>

You can purchase the above mentioned book directly from the Higgins Armory Museum by calling or emailing the Gift shop. $5.95

http://www.higgins.org/store-books.php

508-853-6015 ext.27, or email store@higgins.org

Magnus hoggvandi · Post by **Magnus hoggvandi** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:13 am

I hate that i came along so late to the party. But unfortunately I can't find the book anymore

. I think the place is closed now. Does anyone know where it can be found or at least something that is comparable to this pamphlet?

Domingo · Post by **Domingo** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:20 pm

http://www.amazon.com/Arms-Armor-Conqui ... B000WFJZPY
Here it is

Domingo · Post by **Domingo** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:23 pm

http://www.amazon.com/Arms-Armor-Conqui ... B000WFJZPY
Here it is

Magnus hoggvandi · Post by **Magnus hoggvandi** » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:12 am

Sweet thanks!

ignorance · Post by **ignorance** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:13 am

Domingo wrote:http://www.amazon.com/Arms-Armor-Conqui ... B000WFJZPY
Here it is

Did that link work for you? All I saw was a picture of the book, but amazon shows that it's out of stock.

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:56 pm

There are some good images of infantry appropriate for the Soto or Coronado expeditions on the lower panels in this manuscript (with zoom). British Library Add. MS 12531, Leaves from the Genealogy of the Royal Houses of Spain and Portugal, 1530-1534.
http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/FullDispla ... d_MS_12531

Folio 7r Detail: http://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.asp ... 2531_f007r

: BL Add MS 12531 fo007r-dtl.jpg (88.09 KiB) Viewed 1959 times

I wanna be a CONQUISTADOR

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conquistadore matchlock

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