I wanna be a 14TH CENTURY SCOT

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:12 pm

More helpfully, scour the Net for images from Tombs of the Kings, Iona Abbey -- cotun & bascinet armors, repeated much. Lots of highland swords cut into gravestones too. Also that low-rez niche sculpture from Jerpoint Abbey, Ireland. 14th-c. date, latter-14th-c. plate harness, topped with a finial-topped helmet of the clogaid family that looks styled after a detailed verbal description of a barbute to somebody who had never seen one -- looks awkward, clumsily shaped, but also efficient. The whole sculpture is only about two and a half to three feet tall.

Lindsay · Post by **Lindsay** » Thu May 03, 2012 4:14 pm

This Chap?

Konstantin the Red wrote:Also that low-rez niche sculpture from Jerpoint Abbey, Ireland. 14th-c. date, latter-14th-c. plate harness, topped with a finial-topped helmet of the clogaid family that looks styled after a detailed verbal description of a barbute to somebody who had never seen one -- looks awkward, clumsily shaped, but also efficient. The whole sculpture is only about two and a half to three feet tall.

robstout · Post by **robstout** » Fri May 04, 2012 1:23 pm

Now I need to check my photos again from my 2003 trip to Ireland. That image looks real familiar.

Robert The Stout

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:18 am

@Lindsay: yep, him.

Vigulfr · Post by **Vigulfr** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:15 am

(This is probably not the place to put this, but seeing as I can't currently create new topics I figured I might as well post it here.)

I would like to be a mid-13th century Scottsman. (not sure how to spell that, or if I want to be highland or lowland) Now, before i get the "So, you've seen Braveheart for the ump-teenth time..." speech let me be clear that Scotland in the 13th century was a relatively peaceful place, with the exception of the Galwegian Revolt which resulted in the death of the kingdom of Galloway, and the Battle of Largs, which occurred mostly on the Isles of Scotland. I also know that lowland Scottish fashion followed that of England (for the most part) with armor technology falling behind due to a distinct lack of resources. While Highland Scotts wore mostly leather armor. The problem comes in when trying to determine what kind of helmet was worn with their armor. (I can't see wearing a Greathelm being historically accurate seeing as how they didn't become popular until very late in the 13th century anyway.)

Again, this probably isn't the place to post this, but the Coppergate Helm seems like it is unlikely to be used since that design was prevalent in the 8th century (Even though I think it fits the look I am going for rather well) but from what I've found a large portion of the population wore little more than a chainmail coif (though this could just be for recognition on graves)

If anybody has any suggestions they would be greatly appreciated.

Swete · Post by **Swete** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:10 pm

The coppergate helm is waaaay too early and wrong culture. I would look into a kettle helm maybe. Are you going for nobility or a more sergeant look?

MJBlazek · Post by **MJBlazek** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:25 pm

Mid 13th century? You are going to see a lot of chain, a lot of pot helms and kettle helms. If you are going for Scotland, which would be a bit economically repressed you might get away with one of the "norman" style conicals with nasal. Remember, just because you are "Scottish" you aren't necessarily going to look any different than your English contemporaries. Especially if you are portraying someone of status.

Vigulfr · Post by **Vigulfr** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:06 pm

I was looking into the Norman spangen helm, or a Viking Spectacle helm (Neither of which would be accurate, but I like the look) While a Pot helm or Great Helm (Maybe even a Sugarloaf) would be more "Period" Claustrophobia kicks in and makes that particular type of helmet useless. As for social standing, I think Queen put it best, "He's just a poor boy from a poor family" The whole Idea on how my persona got his armor was he participated in or was present shortly after the Galwegian Revolt and took his armor from the dead (not an uncommon practice, stuff was expensive) This could easily lend itself to having a mishmash of armor from different time periods (Though I agree the Coppergate helm is a little early) but I was looking for something within a century or 2 forward (maybe slightly out of date, but still in production)

MJBlazek · Post by **MJBlazek** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:49 pm

If you look at a lot of pictures from the Macejowski Bible (1244-1254 according manuscriptminiatures.com) you can see there are still a number of the "spangen with nasal" type helms depicted.
I would not go near anything with an "spectacle."

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/static/ ... /118-6.jpg

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/static/ ... /118-7.jpg

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/static/ ... allery.jpg

etc.

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:24 pm

As mentioned earlier Scotland was not as economically behind in the Lowlands. See previous info for more data. Highlands a entire different story but Lowlands was peaceful and as far as wealth goes doing well ahead of much of Europe around this period. Largely agricultural but not per se poor.

MJBlazek · Post by **MJBlazek** » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:12 pm

Yes, Sorry, Randall is correct.
For some reason whenever somone says "I want to be a Scot." I go to the Highlands.
Being from the Lowlands though would mean even less of a difference in clothing/armour than thier English contemporaries,

Laiodheach the Bear · Post by **Laiodheach the Bear** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:26 pm

Ive got a friend That has asked me to drop some questions in here and see what this wonderful machine churns out. He is looking for information on highland scots from 16th cent. Specifically clothing and what the fought with and in (did they fight in kilts). Any resources and reading material would be a great help.

Thanks everyone!

MJBlazek · Post by **MJBlazek** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:28 pm

In short.
No.
I will, or possibly somone before me) elaborate better when I get home from work.

robstout · Post by **robstout** » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:47 pm

Yep. Actual documentation for Great kilts aren't until sometime in the 1590's, and they weren't fought in.

For what they fought in, see Gallowglass, and Border Reiver threads. I'd love to do a Gallowglass hard kit, the weight of the maille would kill my knees (Or my wife would kill me if I sent thousands of dollars on a Titanium Haubrek)

Robert The Stout.

MJBlazek · Post by **MJBlazek** » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:50 pm

Robert put it much more succinctly than I would have

Laiodheach the Bear · Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:41 pm

But what about folks like the Redshanks i know thats later than 14th cent. but i was just a thought

robstout · Post by **robstout** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:03 pm

Leine's can be work knee-high, and you may, or may not have hose. This could explain the redshanks (although I'd need to research this more)

Robert The Stout.

Laiodheach the Bear · Post by **Laiodheach the Bear** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:59 pm

I remember reading somewhere that the redshanks wore kilts most of the time but i cant remember where i saw the resource so that may just be my sub-conscious really wanting to fight in a kilt :p

MJBlazek · Post by **MJBlazek** » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:19 pm

The Wikipedia page for Redshanks does state this.
Suspect as it may be.
we need to stick to the things we do know though.
Unless of course you are going to be portraying a redshank.

Vigulfr · Post by **Vigulfr** » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:30 pm

Moved, OOPS!

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:39 am

Are you asking if you can make something like this work for a Scot kit? Otherwise not sure why you put this here?

If you are looking to buy something hit the want/sale section.

RPM

Tod · Post by **Tod** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:30 am

Highland Scot early 16th century. if you are poor then you have no armour at ll and if you are lucky you havea skullcap/round helmet. You might have a bow and possibly a spear.
If you are cheif you would have a long mail shirt, conical helm it could have a nose bar. You could have a big axe or a double handed sword.
Any one could have a long knife. Shields are rare.
No oen wore kilts, tartan is just checked cloth and isn't typical.
Try to think Saxon meets Viking meets early medival meets dirt poor scum and you'll be close.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:42 pm

Thread with some pix I wish my Google Fu was good enough to track down the proper sites for.

There's a pic of a tall bascinet-oid of the Highlands and Islands -- and galloglass -- sort, nice looking piece of metalwork, looks like off SOME armour seller's site, in a pic about 5/8 the way down page 1 of the thread.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/sho ... nd-Ireland

Ain't got the stuff to copy it, either. Image info not present.

Redshanks as something distinct were pretty much seventeenth to eighteenth century and Caribbean anyway. All done by the late eighteenth, by which time they adopted trousers but kept their music... and some of 'em colonized the Appalachians, I reckon, along with other Scots-Irish who traveled a more direct route.

BjornVarangian · Post by **BjornVarangian** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:09 pm

Quick question, does anyone know if crossbows would be accurate to a Scot somewhere in the wars of independence? I haven't picked a firm date yet and enjoy crossbow archery in the SCA very much

Thanks for any information!

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:24 am

For sure.

Hey would any here be interested in me putting my notes and finished harness pictures up for a 1340s Scot knight?

RPM

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:28 pm

OK Fred, you got it!

I have already started my notes and will get the details up here as soon as I am done. All left now is the poleyns (final polish and lower lame), couters (final polish) and helmet. And millions of straps. That said as soon as the helmet is done I'll put everything up item by item as I strap them.

Glad ther is interest. I figured I had got the notes already so might as well put them up if people were interested.

RPM

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:04 am

Sorry started two new jobs and kept the first. Will get it up for you though. Has been some time. I have images as well so not sure how best to format things....

I'll stick the text based one up tonight after I get back from work if I can.

Just checked my notes.... they are 31 pages with images. I will need some time to figure out how to shrink this down....

RPM

bigfredb · Post by **bigfredb** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:37 am

Awesome!

PM Sent

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:07 pm

Let me know if you got it. I still need to figure out how to get all this in one place here.

RPM

bigfredb · Post by **bigfredb** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:08 am

Got it! Looks great, going through it !

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:17 pm

Glad you like it. I wish I could get the images in a more useful format.

Still working on it. I think it will make it in its own thread though so I'll post a link when I can.

RPM

Duncan Von Atzinger · Post by **Duncan Von Atzinger** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:01 pm

I would be very interested as well..

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:19 pm

OK. PM me your web address and I'll email it. Not ready to get it on the AA yet but have worked some on that as well.

RPM

jamesedgarson · Post by **jamesedgarson** » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:36 pm

Don't know if anyone is still following this thread, but Medieval Warfare Magazine put out an issue dedicated to the First and Second Scottish Wars of Independance. Their online site has an excellent expanded interview with Tobias Cadwell who makes excellent commentary on the arms and armour of early 14th century Scots.

http://www.karwansaraypublishers.com/cm ... -iv-3.html

Hopefully the link works.

Seeing as Scotland votes on Independance in September and both my SCA and mundane persona are Scots I couldn't help but but my two cents in here....(oh,..but it was SOOOO hard given' up me wee pennies!).

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:56 am

James- Just comes up as an error

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