i WTB a Roman Gladiator

[wbf]

Perhaps an entry on Gladiators ??

Both before the ban on the games, and after ??

Just your basic info on them to be honest... Was it a choice for all classes in society ? etc...

[Owen]

Gladiators were, for the most part, slaves.

Check out-
http://www.legionxxiv.org/gladiatorarena/

[LeeC]

These guys have a pretty good reputation...plus they are freakin nuts!


http://www.gladiator.at/index2en.html

[RandallMoffett]

SO those semi square shoulder plates, has anyone used one? It would seem likely if you lifted your arm the upper portion that defends the throat would kill your throat. Just curious. The segmented arm armour is very interesting as well.
RPM

[LeeC]

My understanding is they aren't too comfortable, but much of what gladiators wore was to highlight and add to the spectacle more than to protect.

[Lindsay]

Read this book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/075243 ... s&v=glance



Just finished it this morning and it is really good!

[Lindsay]

Actually, Gladiator armour is highly effective for the purpose it is intended for, i.e to stop a fight being ruined by a superficial injury. Therefore, the arm most likely to be exposed and leading leg are covered as well as the head and face.
There is also the Crupellarius (sp?) Gladiator, wearing almost full segmented armour that was apparently so effective that during one of the gladiator revolts, the ordinary legionary weapons were ineffective and in the end they had to resort to using entrenching mattocks.

My understanding is they aren't too comfortable, but much of what gladiators wore was to highlight and add to the spectacle more than to protect.

[LeeC]

My point exactly actually.

Ancient combat armour has always had the ability to protect against most forms of attack, but typicallly at a cost that was too high for the battlefield (visibility,mobility etc), but highly suitable for the arena and its purposes.

Of course it can be used in battle ala the save revolts, but it is generaly unsuitable for standing armies. Some pieces obviously translate such as the manica for the arms that was adopted by the legions to soe degree around the Dacian campaigns.

If gladiator armour protects, it is to increase spectacle, and preserve a valuable commodity, in that order. But comfort, even when the armour was chosen by the combatant, was not the nearly the concern in one gladitorial match, that it was for the soldier on campaign.

[Evadyn]

There is also the Crupellarius (sp?) Gladiator, wearing almost full segmented armour that was apparently so effective that during one of the gladiator revolts, the ordinary legionary weapons were ineffective and in the end they had to resort to using entrenching mattocks.

[img]http://www.familia-gladiatoria-pannonic ... Carn03.jpg[/img]

That helm reminds me of the early SCA days

[Gerhard von Liebau]

I've studied gladiator equipment some, and must admit I've never seen a helmet quite like that one. It may be a modern design, or a crude attempt at recreating another piece. I'd have to do some research before I could figure out what it is based on, if it's historical... It does look awful silly, whether it's historic or not!

-Gregory

[earnest carruthers]

http://www.durolitum.co.uk/

the writer of the gladiator book mentioned by Lyndsay is a member of Britannia see link above.

I have ordered mine and look forward to having a jolly good read.

[JvR]

I know its an old thread. I haven't been playing SCA much lately and do plan on returning and actually fighting one day. Probably summer.

It gets hot down here. Damn hot. Hot enough to discourage me from putting on armour. I go to events to chill out, not suffer in the heat.

Yeah I know as a new guy I will get hit tons. I just want something light, cool and I understand that means minimally protective.

Are there any gladiator types in the SCA? Any pics?

I figure down the road I can sell my current gear and tent. Get a wall tent, invest in a good helmet and go from there. I can wear regular Roman garb during non fighting events. Overall this looks to be the coolest way to go for the heat.

[JvR]

Bump, anyone?

[Thorsteinn Raudskeggr]

How hot & humid is it there?

I have found that, at 400' altitude, 90'F and 85% humidity is my limit.

I do know that many folks have spoken of the value of chain and linen. So...

How about a Lorica Hamata, and Subarmis? Do a legionnaire, mebe even a Tribune.

It can't be worse in southern Italy, Greece or Rome than Florida.

-Ivan

[Thomas MacFinn]

One important thing to remember is that people then had to fight the heat too. Find out what they did then and you will see that many of the design choices in period were practical as well.

As one example, it has become more evident in the SCA over the last few years (if not longer) that materials make a big difference. When it comes to heat:

linen > cotton > treated cotton > cotton/poly blends > polyester

I live quite a bit farther north and as money allows, I am changing out my gear. For example, I hope to soon replace my military foam helmet lining with a linen and cotton one. That step alone should make a big change heat-wise.

Also, as backwards as it sounds, the better your armor it is the cooler it is, not the other way around (above the shirtless kidney belt level). If your armor needs padding, padding means heat. If your armor is good enough that you can get away with just a linen shirt under it... you see the advantage. And that applies to more than metal vs leather and nice vs cheap plastic. Better fitting armor also means less effort simply moving around. Even something as simple as properly pointing my legs instead of wearing a big harness under my gambison has made a difference.

[Ulvgar]

In our group, most of us fight in lamellar, either steel or aluminum. The tunics we wear are mostly linen, some cotton. Poly-blends and polyester is just too hot. Lamellar is great because it is relatively light and mobile. More breathable that Plate.
Under Armour beneath is a godsend, as well as plenty of water. Before a regular event, melee or list, we spend the week prior "water-loading". Minimun a half gallon a day. For a large event like Pennsic, we start water loading at least a month prior. And we never pass on water during the event.

What does this have to do with armor? The more hydration your body maintains, the easier it can cool itself.

Yes, more layers mean more heat, there is nothing that can be done for it. Still, the right clothing, popping your helmet any chance you can, and lots of hydration can truly work wonders.

[JvR]

I am good with hydration. I drink 6 liters of water a day all the time anyway. I just like the idea of the air on my skin. Thats why I am looking into a gladiator fopr the SCA. I can get away whit a much cooler kit. Well that and it looks badass and the most expensive item is the helmet for most Gladiator types.

Roman garb always seemed comfortable and easy to deal with. Of course I have no experience with it. Its got to be easier than Landsknecht which was what I originally aimed for.

Anyone know of Good SCA safe Gladiator helmet maker for a decent price?

[JvR]

In our group, most of us fight in lamellar, either steel or aluminum.

You guys are doing gladiator persona's?

[Ulvgar]

Our group is Haus Von Draken Klaue (VDK). while there are a mix of personas, we deal mainly with early period Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire. We have Celtic, Roman and Scandinavian personas. I personally do 6th c. CE Vendel Period Scandinavian (pre "Viking").

[Md02geist]

Actually, Gladiator armour is highly effective for the purpose it is intended for, i.e to stop a fight being ruined by a superficial injury. Therefore, the arm most likely to be exposed and leading leg are covered as well as the head and face.
There is also the Crupellarius (sp?) Gladiator, wearing almost full segmented armour that was apparently so effective that during one of the gladiator revolts, the ordinary legionary weapons were ineffective and in the end they had to resort to using entrenching mattocks.

My understanding is they aren't too comfortable, but much of what gladiators wore was to highlight and add to the spectacle more than to protect.

that was really great info about the Crupellarius. I didn't know that type existed as apparently they were fairly rare. Those guys basically look like fully lorica'd beasts with almost like great helms on. Pretty awesome, I can bet they were tough to hurt.

[O'Tearney]

I just finished a lorica manica, and even made a pauldron set-up that straps across the chest. I doubt it would be SCA legal (the elbow is competely exposed), but I think with a few modifications (maybe 'hidden' arm armour under the manica?) it would work quite well.

[Robert of Canterbury]

A gentleman at Gulf Wars in 2011.

[Syrfinn]

Here is actually my new helmet for this personna. Helm based off of the Provocateur style.

I believe there is evidence out there, that not all gladiators were slaves and that several were citizens and such, either on hard times so sign 5 year contracts or well just wanted to be a gladiator. Will try and find where I read that once, not sure on the validity, but I do know not all were slaves.

Also I believe there is plenty of documentation out there of gladiator auxilaries being used in the army. Maybe not totally trusted to do what was needed, I believe the same writings also mention normal commanders did not truct them wholly to do the job required. But that could of been a bias against them.

[Fearghus Macildubh]

Finn, I remember reading something about gladiators being made into soldiers after a major Roman defeat, but cannot find the source. IIRC, the experiment ended badly.

[Matthew Amt]

Not quite. After two Roman armies were badly defeated by Teutons and other Gallo-Germanic tribes around 104 BC, Gaius Marius raised a new army and brought in a number of gladiators and their trainers to help *train* the troops. That army he lead to a smashing victory over the barbarians.

Much later, in the Year of Four Emperors, 69 AD, a revolt in Gaul included a contingent of 100 heavily armored gladiators known as crupellarii. The legionaries fighting them knocked them over with poles (maybe tent poles?) and attacked them with pickaxes. The Romans won.

The only other instance of gladiators in warfare that I know of is the revolt of Spartacus. Obviously that started with a force of gladiators, but grew into a general slave revolt (and may have involved a large number of Samnite warriors, as well).

Lovely helmet, Finn!!

Valete,

Matthew

[Syrfinn]

Coming from you, Matthew, that means a lot. :)

Right now have several books doing my research on.

Susanna Shadrake - The World of the Gladiator
Philip Matyszak - Gladiator - The Roman Fighter's Unofficial Manual
Osprey - Gladiators 100BC - 200AD

I wish I spoke German so I could read Junkelmann, Marcus Gladiatoren - Das Spiel mit dem Tod,Philip von Zabern

Italian - Battaglia, Dario; Ventura, Luca De Rebvs Gladiatoriis - Dal gymnasion al ludus attraverso i sepolcri, Associazione Ars Dimicandi

French - Teyssier, Eric La Mort en Face - Le Dossier Gladiateurs

But on those 3 books, will keep looking for English translations, from what I hear they are in the works.

[Fearghus Macildubh]

Finn, I have a copy of Das Spiel mit dem Tod. My German is poor at best, but it's worth it for the pictures, IMO.

[Syrfinn]

Yeah others have told me that also, so gonna end up getting it anyways. Maybe i will start to learn German also. :)

[Syrfinn]

My Provocator Gladiator Kit. Granted had to make some adjustments for SCA, and well not going to fight barechested. I still need to make the breastplate part, plus maybe a slightly different shield. Not much of a change, maybe just 20x30, instead of what it is right now, which is 18" at top and bottom, but 20" in the middle.

Also, going to take a look at the vibram 5 toe shoes. I saw a tan pair, that looked awesome and would be perfect for this. :)

[Prospero13]

So this is a bit of an old thread, but I've started doing the gladiator thing and I have a question for any murmillo or secutor types out there.

How do you strap your large rectangular shield for 1 on 1 tourney fighting?

I know the Roman legion scutums were held by a horizontal center grip, but I have a feeling that if I do it like that for a tourney I will end up horizontal very quickly.

Do you guys go horizontal center grip?
Vertical center grip?
Strapped like a big heater?

Thanks,

P

[Syrfinn]

For our fighting, I would suggest verticle or strapped. Much more control of shield, horizontal would just be way to easy to table it, at least thats what I found.

[Prospero13]

Thanks very much. I might give a strapped 24x28 rectangle a try and see how I go. That way it won't be too much bigger than everyone else's heaters around here.

P

[Kain556]

so everything I have been reading is that the games in the City of Rome did not allow for a lot of variance in look of the fighter, basically it was always the same 8 classifications of fighter and what they would wear with both historic and cultural reasons.
ie
The murmillo (plural murmillones) or myrmillo wore a helmet with a stylised fish on the crest (the mormylos or sea fish), as well as an arm guard (manica), a loincloth and belt, a gaiter on his right leg, thick wrappings covering the tops of his feet, and a very short greave with an indentation for the padding at the top of the feet. The murmillo carried a gladius (40–50 cm long) and a tall, oblong shield in the legionary style. Murmillones were typically paired with Thraecis, but occasionally with the similar hoplomachi. Wiki
now most fights from what I have gathered would be like this Murmillo vs Retiarius because it was like Fire vs Water seeing as they both represent god's and cultures of people the Murmillo Vulcan the god of the forge and fire and Retiarius Neptune god of the sea/Water hence the Trident and Net
so as you can see there is not a lot of room there to move the only type you could to a lot with is the Rudiarius who is considered Elite and could almost use what ever he wanted or had as armor and weapons. <also Amazonian but I am not a chick so..>
So considering I am Fat and unfit and don't rely feel like showing that off to everyone and there mother while I fight is this where Interpretive Re-creation comes in? Using armors of that time frame and before I could just be a Rudiarius and look like a freakin Greek or roman or what ever as long as I fought... any thoughts or comments on this?

[Prospero13]

Hi Kain,

If you're after a historical precedent for not going naked, there was a kind of subset of the retarius who fought in a tunic instead of being barechested, but I don't think they were particularly well regarded by the crowds, who obviously preferred the muscleman look that we all know and love.

There was also the Eques, a mounted gladiator who is usually shown wearing a big baggy tunic with a thin stripe running from neck to hem on each side. He wore a helm and had had padding on his legs, and fought with a spear, sword and round shield. Possibly not too helpful, unless you have a horse.

Another non naked gladiator was the crupellarius, who was armoured in plate from head to toe. Accorded to Tacitus, these were the guys who revolted and were so heavily armoured that they were unstoppable until the legions started tripping them up with tent poles and then using mattocks and pickaxes on them on the ground.

Finally, gladiators sometimes dressed up as participants in famous Roman victories and re-enacted them for the entertainment of the crowd, so perhaps you could be a gladiator dressed as a Greek or barbarian of some description.

Creative anachronism-wise, I occasionally fight as a secutor or dimacherus gladiator, and rather than risk the disapprobation of the populace, I wear a simple dark green tunic. I know it's not quite right, but it doesn't look blatantly out of place and nobody seems to be too bothered by it.

Good luck with the kit.

(Post pics when its done, I love seeing SCA interpretations of gladiator harnesses.)

[Thomas MacFinn]