I WTB Rus c. 1200

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Fedor Poriadnich
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Re: I WTB Rus c. 1200

Post by Fedor Poriadnich »

Very nice, Gergard! Thanks for sharing!
John S.
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Re: I WTB Rus c. 1200

Post by John S. »

Thanks for your sharing, Greg.
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Re: I WTB Rus c. 1200

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Re: I WTB Rus c. 1200

Post by John S. »

Thanks for sharing, Thomas.

I am interested in developing a better understanding of the differences in clothes and armor between North and Southern Rus principalities. This is the type of topic that frequently gets set aside or glossed over.

I'll take a shot at answering my own inquiry, so that others can provide feedback/correction.

I've read that Novgorod basically had ethnic neighborhoods. I assume that other principalities were similar. So, I assume that in a given principality people would be attired in both the "Northern look" and the "Southern look" that I describe below and the question is more the relative proportions of the population attired in each manner.

Northern look

Up until early-14th century, I visualize this as an almost Nordic-look. This understanding is primarily based on artwork.

Silhouette Bocksten man-esque, but wearing a skull-cap instead of the hood. Attire could include: tunics, braies and chausses or pants that were tight from knee down (no artwork I know of shows enough of the leg to say for sure), center opening caftans, and semi-circular cloaks opening at the side. Specific features which differ from Western attire include--decorative trim around neck and trim around biceps, calf high turn boots as an alternative to ankle high turn shoes, continued use of leg wraps, continued use of tablet woven belts with tassels.

Armor could include lamellar, but chain hauberks and chausses shout Northern principalities. Some portion of armored troops may have looked identical to Scandinavian troops, except for their very distinct helmets.

Southern look

From artwork, earlier finds, and later ethnic examples, I visualize this as more steppe-ified (but not Mongol because that had specifically distinct features.) Details below are intended to apply up until mid-14th century.

This could include double-breasted or center-opening kaftans. These could have one, two, or no lapels. Double-breasted examples always closed at the left. (Differing from Mongol kaftans which always closed at the right.) Frogs were used but were not a decorative element. Fur was used as a lining, never as decorative trim. Decoration included--bands of contrasting fabric around the biceps, on the lapels, and down the front opening.

I think that lower body attire could have been braies-like pants or shorts worn under chausses-like separate leg garments. I base this supposition on the 8th-9th century garments in the Met. From this example and later ethnic examples, I think the pants or shorts would have been cut with a large square or diamond crotch gore--slightly different from Western examples. Pants with a loose crotch and tight lower leg represent a possible alternative.

I also associate this look with leather belts with lots of brass work and pendant straps and tarsoly pouches.

I can edit this with pictures for clarity if needed, but want to get this out there in at least rough form so that the community can provide feedback.
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muttman
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Re: I WTB Rus c. 1200

Post by muttman »

This is my current kit- its supposed to be Kyiv right around 1400 so a bit late than the 1200 OP though the lamellar and the helmet styles are within reason 1200 though I think. I do take some creative license with the timeline of some of it- the bazis and lower legs are of a style thats a bit later for the helmet and lamellar and the gauntlets are well off (sorry, not giving up my Grettirs!) but it is for the most part plausible within a 50 year range of 1400. Period shoes not visible complete the kit. Still a work in progress, ideas and suggestions welcome. Photos cropped from originals by Erica Holcomb
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Re: I WTB Rus c. 1200

Post by John S. »

There is a lot of disagreement on the dating of the Nikolskoye helm. I originally shot for c. 1200 since I found this helm in one of Nicolle's books and that was the date he gave it. Since then, I've seen other sources date this helm c. 1150 to c. 1350. There (at one point,) was even disagreement about whether it was a Rus or Tartar helm.

Other kit elements are probably going to drive your specific date. I'd call myself c. 1300 right now, but recognize speculative aspects of my kit like my use of Western-style padded chausses with pointed on knees and thighs.

Another aspect that could drive an exact date is the details of your lamellar armour. I've been using Dr. Dawson's speculative reconstruction (see the Levantia website) as a basis for mine. I'm due for full rebuild, since the lacing is shot, and would like to more closely mimic some of the iconography this time around.

If you want to do c. 1400 out of armor, too, a few new fashions started cropping up in artwork around this time. One was a new style of coat that was worn hanging over the shoulders like a cloak. Another was collars worn over the top of cloaks or caftans. A third was more decorative frogs (still not full-on Sgt. Pepper). Take a look here http://sofyalarus.info/russia/Garb/PartizanMan.html.
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