I WTB an Ayyubid Arab (12-13C C. Saladdin)

[AvM]

I wanna be a 12th century Muslim under Salah al-din (Saladin), at the time of the Third Crusade.

There's a great deal of information about the Crusaders, but it seems to me very little about the enemies they faced -- Salah al-din's Muslims.

[Robert of Canterbury]

The Museum with no Frontiers has an excellent online exhibition

Key Dates,
1169, Fatimid Egypt falls to Nureddin's Zangid dynasty, Saladdin installed as governor.
1174, Nureddin dies, Saladdin claims Egypt as his own, founds Ayyubid dynasty
1187 Horns of Hattin


Start your reading with "the diary of a syrian arab gentleman and Warrior " Usamah ibn Munkidh ISBN 0-231-12125-3

Also

Maalouf, Amin and Rotchschild, Jon, The Crusades Through Arab Eyes,
ISBN: 0805208984

For a more Exhaustive bibliography, and an excellent introduction read David Friedman's article, "Some sources for Islamic Persona" http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/ ... ersona.pdf

For Ayyubid Material culture, visit the Museum with no Frontiers and run a search on 'Ayyubid' This is a truly wonderful resource.

[olivier]

There is also The Rare and Excellent History of Saladin or, al-Nawādir al-Sulṭāniyya waʾl-Maḥāsin al-Yūsufiyya / by Bahāʾ al-Dīn Ibn Shaddād ; translated by D.S. Richards. Burlington, VT: Ashgate, c2002.

[Amaris10]

http://www.artic.edu/aic/exhibitions/plotnick/

Perpetual Glory: Medieval Islamic Ceramics from the Harvey B. Plotnick Collection 31 Mar - 28 Oct 2007

From Website: Chicago collector Harvey B. Plotnick has assembled what is generally regarded as the finest private collection of early Islamic ceramics in the world. From these truly outstanding objects—much admired by specialists in the field of Islamic art and connoisseurs alike—a selection of approximately 100 treasures ranging in date from the early Abbasid caliphate in Iraq (9th–10th century) and the Mongol Ilkhanid dynasty in Iran (mid-13th–mid-14th century) to the Timurid dynasty in eastern central Asia (14th–15th century) is on view in the exhibition Perpetual Glory.

It's hit and miss around your time period, but,.......

And its not so much the ceramics, but the images on them. I just don't want to spend another $50 on a book. The descriptions from the website leave me skeptical about the book.

http://www.artic.edu/aic/exhibitions/pl ... works.html

Ya have to give me a bit more than just "Bowl with an inscription".

Is there someone in the area, who could "pop-in" and look at this book?

(Even if this isn't your area, letting us know the descriptions are better than the website would be nice.)

Amaris

[AriAnson]

I recommend giving "Saracenic Heradry" by L.A. Meyer a lookover. It has a lot of information on Saracenic culture and arts, as well as a good number of pictures of finds like armor, candlesticks, boxes, jewelry, and pottery. They had their own system of heraldry that denoted things like cup bearer, armor bearer, food taster, or secretary as well as a personal symbol.

[Giano]

For equipment, you'll want to have a look at D. Nicolle: 'Medieval Warfare Sourcebook 2: Christian Europe and its Neighbours'. It's only an intro, but the bibliography is good. His 'Arms and Armour of the Crusading Era' also would be a good thing to study.

Persona and civilisation will be tougher. Almost everything I've found so far either refers to crusading and Huntingdonian paradigms or is about limited, specific contexts. No such thing as 'The Perfect Faris' the way you get so many books about European knighthood AFAIK. However, you can probably manage to approach the core of the question through source translations. Usama b. Munqidh has already been mentioned. There are also several books of poetry, manners, dietetics and cookery that give you a broad idea of the lives of the Islamic world's upper class.

[Atherbridge]

Read The Crusades Through Arab Eyes. It tells the story of the crusades from the muslim POV.

In general, as a Muslim fighter you would not be an Arab, but a Turk or Kurd. You'd probably speak atrocious Arabic, be an uncivilized drunkard, and be quite similar to a first-generation Scandinavian Christian, with bow and lance instead of axe and shield. You'd also probably be a mercenary in the employ of some local amir, and be largely unmotivated by ideology. This is one reason why you'd probably consistently get your ass kicked by the Crusaders, unless you were lucky enough to fight in one of the few battles where you were led by Imad ad-Din Zangi, Shirkuh, Nur ad-Din, or Salah ad-Din.

Or if you were a Mamluk. Then you'd be utterly bad-ass.

[Francisco Lopez de Leon]

Osprey Books- "Saracen Faris" One of the better-interpreted and illustrated Osprey manuals.

[Zahr]

Hi,
I belong to 1186-583 french group, and we reenact some muslims warriors from the end of the 12th century. We worked for several years on this theme.
Here you could find some characters with costumes, weapons and armors : http://www.1186-583.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=21

Here you could see some exemples of our work:









Here one preview from our books who could fin at this link:
http://livres.histoireetcollections.com ... louis.html

[Bake Nasty]

Uhh, question: how is the turban tied on a turban helmet?

[Robert of Canterbury]

Turbans,

Take a long piece of light cotton and futz with it, or if you want more detailed instructions, They are available from Cariadoc's Miscellany in pdf form here

some discussion on Headgear here

[Amaris10]

This is what I got with 7 yards. Having the leather crest underneath helped the fabric "stick". I think a longer run would have looked nicer.

And no,...I haven't fought with it on. I use a shorter piece of the same fabric and simply tie it to the outside of the helm.

[audax]

There were Arabs, Berbers, Turks of various tribes (kipchaks, petchenegs, etc). Saladin himself was of Kurdish descent.

Many of the names, i.e., Zangid, Zirid, Ayyubid, Fatimid, Danishmandid, Hammadids, etc were family/tribal or patronymic names.

Jazeraint armour - covered padded scale, like a jack

khazaghand - covered padded mail

jawshan - lamellar armour

Like the Christians they faced, most Moslem warriors wore mail and the mail was more or less identical to western mail. There really are just so many ways you can put four rings into one. The cloth coverings used often lead people to think Moslems fought unarmoured.

Along with padded armours such a'qotun (aketon), these were very common among medieval moslem soldiers. Helms were of often of conical shape or maybe onion shape, with and without nasals and with and without finials. Tiraz were often found on the sleeves of the outer layers of cloth, often some saying from the qu'ran. Silk was popular with higher ranking soldiers, printed cotton with lower ranks. Belts and horse harness were frequently highly decorated among all classes.

Most Islamic armies were meritocracies, where low born men, as well as Christians, could become men of wealth and rank based on military service. Ghulams were recruited from slaves and were elite soldiers. Some captured Christians converted to Islam and became renegades, some remained Christian yet joined Moslem service and became wealthy.

The Third Crusade was called in response to the capture of Jerusalem by Saladin after Hattin.

[Bleddyn De Caldicot]

If you are really adventurous and like mail, you can double mail like it is mentioned in Usama ibn Mundiq's "Book of Contemplation" He says that one layer of mail is full length while the other covers the chest and back to the waist.

[Norman]

What shape lamellar would be appropriate for this portrail? Would this type work?
http://www.eldesar.com/

That page seems to have a copy of a very specific lamellar (Wisby) and seems to be missing a hole or two.
This is better http://www.redkaganate.org/martial/armo ... amlr.shtml
I recently saw a store page which has a good batch of styles and it looks like the manufacturer actualy did a fair bit of research.
I'm sorry I did not save it.
Look around - and then ask the guy you find where his designs came from.

[Norman]

Are there any surviving khazaghand or good recreations?

I am not aware of any but, based on Usama ibn Munqid's diary, it is realy quite simple --
Put on your coat,
put on a hauberk over this,
put on another coat on top..
do this as many times as you want layers.
Have your friend tack them in place.
Sew the whole thing up at the openings.
The modern drawing in "Sarcen Faris" indicated that there should be a few rivets in the chest area to hold things in place.

(BTW - those illustrations show maile sideways sometimes and lace the "banded" maile sideways - so I don't know how trustworthy the artist is)

[Gerhard von Liebau]

Cross-posting some reference works at Robert's request..!

Here's a good thread over from myArmoury that has some relevant pictorial evidence as well as some pertinent information - it takes some digging, though, as they're talking about a lot of different stuff!

As for Osprey titles that may be useful on such a journey...

Saladin and the Saracens

The Moors: The Islamic West 7th-15th Centuries AD

The Armies of Islam: 7th-11th Centuries

Armies of the Caliphates 862-1098

Hattin 1187: Saladin's Greatest Victory

The Third Crusade 1191: Richard the Lionheart, Saladin and the Battle for Jerusalem

Most of these titles deal with the era leading up towards the Third Crusade, but I believe the impression they'll leave is an excellent step in understanding the tradition in Islamic armies during the late 12th-13th century.

Finally, we have Arms and Armour of the Crusading Era, 1050-1350. Big book, heard it's a must have... Waiting on my first copy as I type! Some of the black-and-white scanned images from the myArmoury thread were taken from this book.

Now, as this is only a gaining interest of mine... I currently own none of the Osprey books! But, I do own about 100 Osprey titles, and love them as casual resources. They're easy to read, provide lots of great information and are a fountain of wealth when it comes to illustration. I'd suggest getting any/all of these if this is the path you're pursuing!

-Gregory

[Effingham]

Osprey Books- "Saracen Faris" One of the better-interpreted and illustrated Osprey manuals.

I LOVE that one. One of the best in the Warrior series.

[Aaryq]

Any good patterns for garb to match this look? Until I get surgery (and recover from it) I can't fight. But I reckon in this heat, I need me some Arab Garb.

[Said ibn-Ali]

Any good patterns for garb to match this look? Until I get surgery (and recover from it) I can't fight. But I reckon in this heat, I need me some Arab Garb.

I happen to do an 11-12th century Andalusian Berber Moor as my persona, and the garb is pretty simple actually. Most of the shirts are simple designs, the Osprey men-at-Arms books listed above have some pretty good paterns to follow. The thing is honestly the use of linen, it will help cut the heat more than anything else.

And for anyone looking to tie a turban, you should look at what style of turban you are looking to make, what region and what timeframe. Like the Berbers of North Africa have a completely different way of tieing a turban vs the Turks of the Ottoman Empire. Even the color of the fabric matter when it comes to a turban. Some colors are reserved for some things others are free game, again it depends on the region and timeframe.

[Gocauo]

And for anyone looking to tie a turban, you should look at what style of turban you are looking to make, what region and what timeframe. Like the Berbers of North Africa have a completely different way of tieing a turban vs the Turks of the Ottoman Empire. Even the color of the fabric matter when it comes to a turban. Some colors are reserved for some things others are free game, again it depends on the region and timeframe.

There are variations in the manner in which the imamah is tied, North Africa is pretty much the only place where you would see someone "all wrapped up".

Reserved colors are a more modern affectation...period manuscripts show all types of colors (white, black, blue, red, yellow...).

From time to time sumptuary laws were in effect for certain peoples to wear certain colors, but those are generally a 'flash in the pan' time-frame wise.

Despite popular belief, there is no 'generic' ME clothing...each ethnic group had pretty specific things they wore to differenciate themselves from each other. If you are on FM, there are several ME groups where we have already had several of these discussion...a gold mine of info for you for a little searching.

[Aaryq]

I have a tunic and a vest now. I'm out of period right now since I'm using a Kyffyeh rather than a turban. I think I'll submit myself to the period police because it's so damned comfortable and utilitarian. The tunic is cotton and not linen, but it's so comfortable. The problem: It's white and the red mud of WoW got it on the bottom quite well and a couple of wine stains from a party at the Barony of Hawkwood has also attacked it. Either way, I like the look. My next 2 goals are to have some presentable court garb and to have period accurate (as possible) fencing armour (not just Arab garb with a fencing jacket underneath).

[Gocauo]

[quote="Aaryq"]I have a tunic and a vest now. I'm out of period right now since I'm using a Kyffyeh rather than a turban. I think I'll submit myself to the period police because it's so damned comfortable and utilitarian. quote]


You ask what would be correct to wear then you bash us as 'period police'...classy.

[Aaryq]

I didn't mean to call anyone the period police. More as a general statement. I will get a turban eventually.