I want to be a French knight in 1380

[Tailoress]

Bertus hits the imaginary 'Like!' button.

You, too, Bertus, will be thanked! I ended up using the reference from DeGuileville you had translated on a thread here. It's a great little proof of the essence of meaning for "pourpoint".

Randall -- the paper had to be limited to 17 minutes spoken, and it takes me about 2 minutes to read a page at a proper, non-rushed pace, which means the whole thing had to be whittled down to 8.5 pages. There is a LOT of detail I either had to forego or gloss over, natch, so I see this as more of a beginning than the final output. I spent a great deal of time assembling the slide show that goes with it, though, so I'm hoping the spectator experience is lively and that even people who know a lot on this topic will be given something to think about. (Even if only to disagree with me!)

[Bertus Brokamp]

Good, away with the silly 'for points' translation!

[Tailoress]

Good, away with the silly 'for points' translation!

Exactly! That is one sacred cow which I have tried to slay in the paper. A few others too, I hope.

[Michael W]

I'll add this here instead of starting a new thread. What are peoples thoughts of this armour being used to represent a late 14th Century French knight (so 1380 might be about right)?


Would a houndskull helmet be more appropriate?
Any small adjustments that might bring it more in line?

[PatternWeld]

Depends on how rich your personae is...

Immediate issues as I see them:

Center hinged Klapvisor more of a German thing ... a side hinged visor seems to be the French thing in this period.

The breastplate without fauld is about 10-15 years out of date. You'd have some sort of fauld, attached to the breastplate with slotted rivets or at worst you would have an attached, covered fauld.

I see flesh exposed at your neck.... you need a hidden gorget and an aventail on that helmet

Cased Greaves & segmented sabbaton with heel plates.

Criticism: You tie your besagews up too high. You are using gutter vambraces, they should be better fitted/shaped. You are not wearing a garment that denotes your heraldry nor are you wearing a hip belt and sword belt.

Praise: MAILLE! Love to see it. Overall the armour quality appears to be above average to excellent.

[Kalle Ommer]

Depends on how rich your personae is...

Immediate issues as I see them:

Center hinged Klapvisor more of a German thing ... a side hinged visor seems to be the French thing in this period.

The breastplate without fauld is about 10-15 years out of date. You'd have some sort of fauld, attached to the breastplate with slotted rivets or at worst you would have an attached, covered fauld.

I see flesh exposed at your neck.... you need a hidden gorget and an aventail on that helmet

Cased Greaves & segmented sabbaton with heel plates.

Criticism: You tie your besagews up too high. You are using gutter vambraces, they should be better fitted/shaped. You are not wearing a garment that denotes your heraldry nor are you wearing a hip belt and sword belt.

Praise: MAILLE! Love to see it. Overall the armour quality appears to be above average to excellent.

Hallo Michael,

well I think it depends where the persona you are trying to recreat lives in France. I know the armour is advertised as "italian style armour 1380-1420", but more as an italian export to Germany and not to France. The prize is nearly unbeatable (499 Euro) and you can build your gear around this core.

Somethings I would do to enhance the overall aperance of this set would be:

Get an avantail to go with the helmet (either one from Zeughaus or Battlemerchant)
The mailshirt pictured is not part of the deal, buy one!
Let the besagews out a bit. They should cover your armpit not your shoulder joint.
Some sort of faults should be attached to the breastplate.

All in all this is an pretty decent armour. I handled some of the components of this suit at their shop here in cologne.

Greetings

[Fieldstone]

Tasha, many here have giving you outstanding information about what a French Knight of the late 1300's would wear, but I would offer you something else. in 1356 Sir Geoffroi De Charny (in many peoples mind the best knight since The Marshal) wrote a book about life as a French Knight in 1356. What is important about this book, it is a point of view from the author the knight himself, and not some historian or romantic view point. Here he passes on the mindset of the times and the current issues the French orders were having, he educates us of the beginning (and the end) of the Order of the Star. The book in it's English form is called "A Knight's Own Book of Chivalry". To the best of my knowledge it was the only book that was written by a knight in his own time, or at least the only book to survive. If you are going to be a French Knight of the later half of the 1300's, this will give you some good insight of how one should act and live, at least according to 1356 Sir Geoffroi De Charny.

David (Fieldstone)

[Belemrys]

Depends on how rich your personae is...

Immediate issues as I see them:

Center hinged Klapvisor more of a German thing ... a side hinged visor seems to be the French thing in this period.

The breastplate without fauld is about 10-15 years out of date. You'd have some sort of fauld, attached to the breastplate with slotted rivets or at worst you would have an attached, covered fauld.

I see flesh exposed at your neck.... you need a hidden gorget and an aventail on that helmet

Cased Greaves & segmented sabbaton with heel plates.

Criticism: You tie your besagews up too high. You are using gutter vambraces, they should be better fitted/shaped. You are not wearing a garment that denotes your heraldry nor are you wearing a hip belt and sword belt.

Praise: MAILLE! Love to see it. Overall the armour quality appears to be above average to excellent.

Hallo Michael,

well I think it depends where the persona you are trying to recreat lives in France. I know the armour is advertised as "italian style armour 1380-1420", but more as an italian export to Germany and not to France. The prize is nearly unbeatable (499 Euro) and you can build your gear around this core.

Somethings I would do to enhance the overall aperance of this set would be:

Get an avantail to go with the helmet (either one from Zeughaus or Battlemerchant)
The mailshirt pictured is not part of the deal, buy one!
Let the besagews out a bit. They should cover your armpit not your shoulder joint.
Some sort of faults should be attached to the breastplate.

All in all this is an pretty decent armour. I handled some of the components of this suit at their shop here in cologne.

Greetings

Where is this deal? I didnt see a link and that is close to what I am looking for...although I am looking for more historical lines and maybe cased greaves...also would want a visored bascinet...

[Gustovic]

This is the european retailer. Sadly it doesn't export to US. http://shop.strato.de/epages/245791.sf/ ... l_13801420

The original source is SNExports http://www.snexports.com

Kult of Athena is starting to import their stuff though...

[Belemrys]

Hmmm doesn't say what materials are used...probably 16g mild

[Gustovic]

The whole suit is 1,6mm, which is 16ga, mild, aside from the helmet which is 2mm, 14ga.

[Belemrys]

Hmm that is very affordable even for mild steel...too bad they don't ship to the US...I will keep an eye out for Kult of Athena getting their stuff in stock...I could use the arms, legs, shoulders, maybe even a globose at those prices...I wonder how nice their hourglass gauntlets are and if they would be SCA legal for 2h weapon fighting.

[Henrik Granlid]

Looking at that site, I am now a very happy man, the first time I found affordable riveted chain hauberks in Europe, and their spaulders are fine. Their chestplates are a bit too flat for my liking, but, if I recall correctly, they did get flatter toward the transitional period did they not?

EDIT:

Their hourglass gauntlets seem to be riveted only to the leather, there is no metal-on-metal riveting going on.

[Belemrys]

Yeah, it is a cheap hourglass gauntlet. I don't think I would use it for SCA. It doesn't have the ride plate so you can have proper mobility and the cuff is open from the 3rd picture. They globose is rather flat and doesn't slope in towards your waist to make as much of an hourglass as it should but hey...at 120 USD...can't complain too much. I wonder how good the articulation on their arms and knees are...

[Jan van Nyenrode]

Hi Henrik,

If you are interested in a cheap breastplate. I would buy from Rough from the Hammer and do the sanding and rolling the edges myself. Those have a lot more depth, and if you ask, he can put some more in then standard. Shipping does add additional costs, but just last week I saw that Xtracted is ordering a couple from Rough from the Hammer and he lives in Sweden and does SCA. Maybe you can join his order?

Belemyrs, what is the problem with the gauntlets? I also have finger gauntlets and they work just fine with finger bucklers (but would not advice them for Polearms). Although, I did have to take the fingers apart and re-made them to fit my hands. Personally I do not see a problem with the split in the cuff. No weapon would penetrate that slit.

Regards,

Jan

[Henrik Granlid]

Oh I don't have anywhere near enough money, even for something as cheap as RftH right now, but it is a good idea, although, as said, for later =) For now I'm busy scheduling both plastic and metallic coat of plate build dates with different people.

[Michael W]

Thanks for the advice about the armour. Would anyone have an idea of the type of faulds appropriate for this type of armour? It looks like most places sell them as part of a breastplate combo. I plan to get another helmet so I can go a more German or French look depending on the event and heraldic garments are on the books too.

[Henrik Granlid]

With such a long, shallow breastplate, I'd actually be tempetd to go with the strange "tapering into an upside down triangle" fauld that can be seen on certain effigies/artwork, it looks to be a good one to go with hat plate, I do not have any pictures though, nor do I think you'll actually need a fauld for it in order to protect your gut, it seems to ride low.

[Gustovic]

Faulds?
There you go =)
http://www.platener.eu/wyrobygaleria/altarPistoia.jpg

[Tailoress]

Tasha, many here have giving you outstanding information about what a French Knight of the late 1300's would wear, but I would offer you something else. in 1356 Sir Geoffroi De Charny (in many peoples mind the best knight since The Marshal) wrote a book about life as a French Knight in 1356. What is important about this book, it is a point of view from the author the knight himself, and not some historian or romantic view point. Here he passes on the mindset of the times and the current issues the French orders were having, he educates us of the beginning (and the end) of the Order of the Star. The book in it's English form is called "A Knight's Own Book of Chivalry". To the best of my knowledge it was the only book that was written by a knight in his own time, or at least the only book to survive. If you are going to be a French Knight of the later half of the 1300's, this will give you some good insight of how one should act and live, at least according to 1356 Sir Geoffroi De Charny.

David (Fieldstone)

Thank you, David. I have read portions of Charny (the questions in particular), and I have the Book of Chivalry on my shelf, but haven't yet read it cover-to-cover. You may be interested to know that Steve Muhlberger's new book on Men-at-Arms will be coming out soon from Freelance Academy Press, and it deals extensively with Charny's questions. To boil it down to it's most reductive terms, it's all about the horses. (IMO.)

[wolf16mt]

how has the progression going on the french knight kit?

[Tailoress]

how has the progression going on the french knight kit?

If you are asking me, it will never go anywhere. I am merely a fan of the clothing and armour and have a passion for researching such subjects. I don't intend to ever make myself a version of it.

But, I do love seeing well-executed kits, and so I started this thread to help others make theirs.

If you were asking someone else above, pardon my butting in.

[wolf16mt]

I was asking you tailoress. I thought you were going to make one. I was hopeing to see the work you were dping to help me make my own. I have a good start. Its posted on the redweeds site with the other member pics. Its at the bottom of the list.