The Armour Archive

I was fortunate to get a fitting for a cotehardie. However, I made my first uhhh, attempt out of a linen that I have since learned was too light. *sigh*. (I'd like to point out I did have it "approved" first, by someone who purported to know. Anyways.) Also need to adjust the arm holes, which is understandable in such a fitted garment. My fitting was done with muslin.

I was told by someone else afterwards that if a cotehardie is being planned to be made in linen, it's important to pattern it in linen. Makes sense, yes?

And if this is correct, would the same follow for a cotehardie to be made in silk? And/or wool?

I *really* do not want to screw up my silk and wool. I'm more than willing to make up a bunch of practice cotehardies in linen first.

Also...I was told by the person who patterned me that I should wear an underdress of a sturdy (non-shifting) weave, to assist in the support of the outer dress. This is the first I've heard of that technique for a cotehardie. What are your thoughts on this? Seems like it would be needed for a linen cotehardie made of anything lighter than 7 oz or so, but still, I don't know.

Thanks in advance!

*edited for spelling*

I always fit using linen. I usually turn around and use that fitting for the lining of the first dress, after tracing off a pattern, of course!

Most of my dresses, wool or silk, are lined in linen anyway. I know of some people who have made wool fitted dresses with no lining, and not had trouble.

As a general rule of thumb, always leave a larger seam allowance than normal if you're not positive that it's going to fit. For example, if you fit using 5 oz linen and the next dress is 5 oz linen, you're probably ok. If you're using 5 oz linen and your next dress is unlined wool, leave an inch seam allowance.

I suggest using flat-lining techniques so that you can tweak the fit after sewing the dress together and inserting the eyelets.

Clothing of the 14th and 15th century was frequently layered. So the gown right over your shift would support you. A gown over that might be decorative. You're not naked with only one gown on - it's appropriate.

What weight of fabric you need to use depends on your body. But mostly, it's important that the fabric has no stretch at all. It's also important that the tight band under the bust is exactly on-grain - no bias whatsoever. Think of it as your "bra strap" and keep it on grain.

But you don't usually need a really heavy fabric, usually. If you need more sturdiness, you can add an interlining between the lining and the gown fabric. I'm a 34H, and I need a lot of support, and I use 5 oz linen lining a lightweight wool, flat lined technique, with flat-felled seams in the bodice.

For more info, and more explanation of what I'm talking about, I have a website with articles taking the dress from fitting from completion:

http://www.mathildegirlgenius.com/Fitti ... uction.htm

Thank you so much for your input, Charlotte. It's a big help.

Funny, you (I) think, "it's just a dress, you've made dresses before..." but I find I have 101 questions before I even start. Well, start *again*, I guess.

When I first read though, I thought you said "too small", but now I see you said "too light". What do you mean? Is it stretching too much? Not supporting you? Pulling too much at the seams? Could you just go add a lining to it and salvage the work that you've already done? While I recommend flat-lining for strength and adjustability, bag lining can lend strength as well.

A: Pulling at the seams.

Yes, the linen is too light, in that while the back and sides fit beautifully, the fabric at the seam separates (warp from weft) at the pressure point. It's particularly noticible because it's a shot linen (shot means warp and weave are two different colors, right?). I don't know that I can recoup it. But I suppose I can try, I have nothing to lose.

I first read the term flat lining on another post here on AA, I recognized it as a pearl of wisdom and started researching it immediately! I am unclear on how flat lining differs from bag lining though. I'll google it.

Thanks again!

The bag lining is attached at all points and the flat lining is loose at the bottom I think?

I actually made myself a men's style cotehardie using Charlotte's patterning method and it turned out pretty good for a first attempt. My arms are getting too beefy though so next time I am going to add a little diamond shaped gusset thingy to the armpit area. Other than that it fits like a glove.

Isabella E wrote:The bag lining is attached at all points and the flat lining is loose at the bottom I think?

Nah. Flat-lining means all the layers are placed together before sewing the pieces to each other. Bag-lining means you sew the whole garment two times and then attach them both to each other such that one gets tucked inside the other, like a bag. It hides all the internal seams.

Rana wrote:A: Pulling at the seams.

Yes, the linen is too light, in that while the back and sides fit beautifully, the fabric at the seam separates (warp from weft) at the pressure point. It's particularly noticible because it's a shot linen (shot means warp and weave are two different colors, right?). I don't know that I can recoup it. But I suppose I can try, I have nothing to lose.

I first read the term flat lining on another post here on AA, I recognized it as a pearl of wisdom and started researching it immediately! I am unclear on how flat lining differs from bag lining though. I'll google it.

Thanks again!

This lesson explains the difference between lining techniques. I take you through the process of constructing the dress with a bag lining, then the explanation for flat lining is at the end.

http://www.mathildegirlgenius.com/Docum ... sembly.pdf

Has the fabric already been damaged?

OK. I printed out the instructions last night, but I wasn't able to read it yet.

I removed the dress as soon as I noticed the pulling, I may be able to "comb" the fabric back together.

It would be lovely to be able to salvage that work. I had already written it off as a learning experience.

Tasha K wrote:

Isabella E wrote:The bag lining is attached at all points and the flat lining is loose at the bottom I think?

Nah. Flat-lining means all the layers are placed together before sewing the pieces to each other. Bag-lining means you sew the whole garment two times and then attach them both to each other such that one gets tucked inside the other, like a bag. It hides all the internal seams.

Ahhh ok. Thanks. I did the bag lining thing. I don't have a serger so I have pretty much always done it that way.

Hey Rana. I'm sure Arianna would be happy to help with any additional fitting and construction needs. We'll be at Coronation this weekend if you want to chat about clothes.

Munz wrote:Hey Rana. I'm sure Arianna would be happy to help with any additional fitting and construction needs. We'll be at Coronation this weekend if you want to chat about clothes.

Yay! If you're sure she won't mind, I'll bring what I have thus far.

She's always let me know she's available for brain-picking and more, but it's very tough for me to get out to her on her open night.