The Armour Archive

Some photos of our Medieval Winter Camp, immersion event, circa 1420. We did this last weekend in Norge, just outside Williamsburg and had the added treat of snow. It was a good opportunity for some experimental archaeology. Despite the snow, we stayed warm and comfortable.
The event did go off, sort-of as planned. Of course we never expected 12 inches
of snow when we planned this event.


Five of us participated:Fred S., Dustin S., Tom A. his son Aaron A. and I.


However, we knew it was going to be cold. We built the tavern portion, basically
an area 12 ft by 16 ft framed with poles and covered in canvas tarps hovel with a
large opening in the top to let smoke out. As the snow intensified, we made the
opening a little smaller to keep the snow out, which claimed a few square feet
inside our shelter.

The temperature inside the tavern was usually warmer than outside. Being out of
the snow and wind, and feeling the radiant heat of the fire made it very
bearable. Often it was around 20 degrees warmer inside depending where the
reading was made.

We originally planned to have a marquee as the bed chamber but since we knew
that our attendance was going to be small, we opted for a wall tent because it
was easier to deal with.

We used an attached A-tent as our larder and another A-tent down the hill as our
privy.

We did learn a few useful things given we haven't camped in that much snow
lately. We needed more roof structure so the snow wouldn't accumulate too thick.
We needed to clear the snow off the wall tent more frequently. At one exciting
point the ridge pole broke. We spliced it and put a supporting post under it. In
the future, if snow is expected, We will put a post in before the ridge pole
breaks.

Pattens don't work well in the snow, it sticks to bottoms very thick. Waxing
helps but then the snow builds up between the shoe and patten.

We didn't do much on Saturday but stay warm, cook food, and make adjustments to
our shelter. We had fun and we learned some things. While we did OK with the
weather, it would have been nicer with a bit less snow.

in the Hussite and Winter Faire forums.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hussites/?yguid=186625502

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/winter_fa ... =221630619

Regards,

Very respectably executed. Well done.

Best,

John

I heard about this from Rick Orly. He claimed that he backed out before the 12" of snow was predicted. Right...

Anyway, looks like it was a lot of fun! My bunch used to do winter encampments in 18th Century kit, snowshoeing in to a nice area in the Sierra about 8,000 feet. We were pretty well guaranteed to have snow, even in January!

What is fun is that after spending several days in the cold with nothing but a paltry fire and wool to keep you warm, walking into a modern restaurant is like walking into a sauna! Yikes!

Gads I miss that...

Cheers!

Gordon

Well done guys! The photos look quite sureal to me siting here sweating in the 30oCs and high humidity. Nice and hardcore living history. What a fantastic test of your gear!

No old barns or anything to borrow for an event?

With a small pair of bellows and a travel anvil you could forge arrowheads in that fire!

Thomas

- Also - Great period! So few people do early 15thC. I have always thought it funny how people stick to time "clumps" with re-enactment...

Yeah, it was a pretty fun event. Hopefully more people will come down and join us next time.

I'll bet it made you appreciate the value of good quality heavy wool!

That is so rocking! What "group" did you do that with, or just organize it amonst yourselves? When I get my kit finished, I would love to participate in something like that.... realy would like to ifnd a local 15th century support group (or enablers depending how you look at it)

-Takeda (also doing european)

Very cool, love the pics. I've done these style weekends for Amer Civil War, but nothing earlier. Usually once or twice has been enough for me since my palate and stomach prefer more modern fair. Still worth it. May give it a try when I get a better camp together.

Suffering and documenting. So you don't have to.

Every time I see stuff like this I think: Cool!

and

Donner party.....Hmmmm... maybe not for me.

-Ivan

Living not 27 miles from the Donner Party monument.

Here is a photo of the outside of our shelter.

[img]http://webpages.charter.net/apples/medieval/inn01a.jpg[/img]


The people participating were part of the Hussite Kompagnie and Grey's Retinue. Both mid-East Coast groups.

Regards,

Rittmeister Frye wrote:I heard about this from Rick Orly. He claimed that he backed out before the 12" of snow was predicted. Right...

Anyway, looks like it was a lot of fun! My bunch used to do winter encampments in 18th Century kit, snowshoeing in to a nice area in the Sierra about 8,000 feet. We were pretty well guaranteed to have snow, even in January!

What is fun is that after spending several days in the cold with nothing but a paltry fire and wool to keep you warm, walking into a modern restaurant is like walking into a sauna! Yikes!

Gads I miss that...

Cheers!

Gordon

Very Cool Gordon yes I've heard of Rick Orly name from Tom Apple of the Hussite Kompagnie said it I think.
I for one hate cold after working in S.Korea but I had a great time doing this and your right about the feeling like a sauna and my hair still smells of smoke...

I'm a member of the Hussite Kompagnie I'm focusing on doing a Jezdec kit and horse, we do not have war wagons to do the Spanile jizdy yet...

And I'm in Lord Grey's Retinue I'm an Archer.



And the Donner Party did come up, Cheer...
Miles

Dragon_Argent wrote:I'll bet it made you appreciate the value of good quality heavy wool!

Yes, I do appreciate it now, but I've had it on in 32'c or 90'f asking myself why am I doing this to myself. lol

Cheers Miles

Miles_H_J wrote:

Dragon_Argent wrote:I'll bet it made you appreciate the value of good quality heavy wool!

Yes, I do appreciate it now, but I've had it on in 32'c or 90'f asking myself why am I doing this to myself. lol

Cheers Miles

Yeah- tell me about it.... I live in a place that can hit 30c in the middle of winter and the high 20's is not uncommon.....
Makes it tough to keep everyone in accurate gear. This is why we are switching over to re-enacting more Mediterranean cultures...
Italian Wars in my case...

Leo Medii wrote:This is the kind of stuff I was hoping to find when I came to the SCA.

Me to long ago...

Cheers and Break a Lance
Miles

Miles_H_J wrote: And the Donner Party did come up, Cheer...
Miles

That's when the chubbier folks start noticing that "lean and hungry look" in sidelong glances from their leaner companions...

I'll tell you, having been in Donner Pass during some ugly winters, I can see why after a few months of that you'd be stark raving bonkers, and studying it in some depth doesn't to anything to lesson the ugliness of the situation. Lord but they were dumb!

Anyway, Yuck... No long pork for this old boy.

Cheers,

Gordon

Rittmeister Frye wrote:

Miles_H_J wrote: And the Donner Party did come up, Cheer...
Miles

Anyway, Yuck... No long pork for this old boy.
Cheers,
Gordon

Here in Oz in Colonial Times- Convicts thought China was just over the Great Divinding Ranges (Geography and wilderness survival not being a strong suite of the London Crimnal Class of the late 18thC) so they would convince some younger (and more tender) convicts in to escaping with them so they would have fresh meat along the way!

Dragon_Argent wrote:

Miles_H_J wrote:

Dragon_Argent wrote:I'll bet it made you appreciate the value of good quality heavy wool!

Yes, I do appreciate it now, but I've had it on in 32'c or 90'f asking myself why am I doing this to myself. lol

Cheers Miles

Yeah- tell me about it.... I live in a place that can hit 30c in the middle of winter and the high 20's is not uncommon.....
Makes it tough to keep everyone in accurate gear. This is why we are switching over to re-enacting more Mediterranean cultures...
Italian Wars in my case...

Italian Wars very cool
I been playing around with the Reconquista of Spain falls right in to doing New World stuff so much to do...

Dragon_Argent wrote:

Rittmeister Frye wrote:

Miles_H_J wrote: And the Donner Party did come up, Cheer...
Miles

Anyway, Yuck... No long pork for this old boy.
Cheers,
Gordon

Here in Oz in Colonial Times- Convicts thought China was just over the Great Divinding Ranges (Geography and wilderness survival not being a strong suite of the London Crimnal Class of the late 18thC) so they would convince some younger (and more tender) convicts in to escaping with them so they would have fresh meat along the way!

No long pork Yuck Yuck Yuck...

TakedaSanjuichiro wrote:That is so rocking! What "group" did you do that with, or just organize it amonst yourselves? When I get my kit finished, I would love to participate in something like that.... realy would like to ifnd a local 15th century support group (or enablers depending how you look at it)

-Takeda (also doing european)

Takeda

Miles and Dustin participate with Lord Grey's Retinue as well as the Hussite group which I am on also (just have not had time to participate yet). Lord Grey's as well as the Hussite will do some of the localtime line events, MTA in March (Jamestown), MTT in April (Largo Md.), Colonial Plantation in October (Philly area). I am sure other private events might get planned over the year.

If you interested drop me a line and we can talk about Lord Grey's; we can always use another archer.

Leo Medii wrote:This is the kind of stuff I was hoping to find when I came to the SCA.

What's stopping you from making it happen?

-Derian.

Derian le Breton wrote:

Leo Medii wrote:This is the kind of stuff I was hoping to find when I came to the SCA.

What's stopping you from making it happen?

-Derian.

Status quo.

We do have events like this, but they are private events. Long ago, Felix and Phillipe in the Middle wanted to have an event like this, with camp combats and all kinds of cool stuff. Once it became an official SCA event it lost a lot of what they originally wanted. It was still fun, but (to me) it would have been a lot cooler the way they originally described it.

That looks awesome. Well done.

I'm absolutely speechless as to how amazing that looks; I'm also incredibly jealous and would do horrible things to have the chance to participate in events like it.

Leo Medii wrote:This is the kind of stuff I was hoping to find when I came to the SCA.

Hell, thats the kind of stuff I was hoping to find when I tried Living History:)

Nothing Ive done, held or attended comes close to what yall did.

Friggin Brilliant!

Stuff like this makes me really ponder moving out east to be around folks that really get the purpose of LH.

Halvgrimr wrote:Nothing Ive done, held or attended comes close to what yall did.

Got to disagree with you Halvgrimr the event for the opening of the long hall had quite a few of the same aspects.

Miles_H_J wrote:Pattens don't work well in the snow, it sticks to bottoms very thick. Waxing helps but then the snow builds up between the shoe and patten.

Cork soled shoes may have been a better bet; it is like a show with a built in patten. Now that I give it some thought they would be great for the cold and snow.

James B. wrote:

Halvgrimr wrote:Nothing Ive done, held or attended comes close to what yall did.

Got to disagree with you Halvgrimr the event for the opening of the long hall had quite a few of the same aspects.

I will disagree.

While I was the main cheerleader for the project and even for a while bought into the idea that it really was an 'experimental archeology" project the truth I finally had to admit to myself was that the longhall was never anymore than a nicely decorated modern barn.

While folks were fooled into beleiveing it was the atmosphere which made the events so special they were always wrong IMO.

It was the people that made those events.
Folks that shared a common interest/standard (for the most part.)

I use the term fooled in a totally benevolent manner in that the 'longhall' was really never more than one of many props used to lure folks in:)

IMO, the images above are much closer to period living/experimental archeology than Norstead ever was.

We have plans to do more events that are workshops mixed in like a mini-boot camp in away with drills and making field fortifications.

And teach the very basic's stuff like how to start a fire without a bic lighter.

Oh and making snow angels to.

Halvgrimr wrote: IMO, the images above are much closer to period living/experimental archeology than Norstead ever was.

LOL, that is seriously the funniest thing I've read in years. If for no other reason then most of our medieval ancestors weren't generally stupid enough to spend time in tents in the dead of winter.

Piers Brent wrote:LOL, that is seriously the funniest thing I've read in years. If for no other reason then most of our medieval ancestors weren't generally stupid enough to spend time in tents in the dead of winter.

So you assert at no time in the middle ages people were under canvas and it snowed on them? We chose that time of year because it wasn't already filled with events. We weren't recreating an event that occurred on some 29-31 January days.

I guess it is more probable that our medieval ancestors would find themselves in a modern meeting hall, hotel conference center, or other such modern contrivance this time of year.

It is often the case that armies of different periods find themselves in the field or giving siege when the snow starts to fly.

Of course we would much prefer being in thatched wattle and daubed houses. Was our set-up perfect? Of course not, but it is a damn sight better than not attempting to do any sort of authentic-oriented event at all.

I've been in medieval reenactment a little over a year. I don't see much happening on the US East Coast as far as historical medieval immersion events. So we decided to give it a try. The next time it will be better and hopefully not snow on us. That sort of weather is really pretty rare in this part of Virginia. We can get winter temps as high as 70 degrees F fairly often. So when we schedule an end of January event, we don't know what sort of weather it could be.

So enjoy your laugh and we'll enjoy our events.

BTW, we portray Hussites, and the Hussite General, Jan Zizka conducted a winter campaign in January of 1421 into Plzen. So I guess Zizka was stupid to conduct a successful winter campaign.

Cheers,

Hi Tom, Welcome to the Achive, we were in the Jamestown the Begining movie like 23 years ago,