The Armour Archive

Not really heavily into the SCA but am getting there. I never thought about registering names and stuff but figured doing so would be a great way to keep me interested since I dont get to participate but once a year.

Sorry for not knowing the terms exactly. I heard it depends on if you have an AoA or not.

Anyway.

My name got approved a little while back. Now I want to do one of those arms/device shield whatever you call them things. My SCA herald said it was best to start of basic and go from there. Great, I am a simple man and simple will do. Now I do appreciate the really detailed and decorated ones some of you have, I just want to keep mine simple.

Here is the fancy jargon for it as per my herald.
"A bend sinster azure and argent, a dog statant contercharged"



Trying to keep it as simple as possible and still get passed. Think it might fly? He didnt see any conflicts

Thanks

Barring conflict, I see no reason why it wouldn't pass.

One bit of detail - heraldic dogs come in two types, the bulky talbot (mastiff-like) and the lithe greyhound. The dog you've got there in silhouette would therefore correctly be blazoned as a talbot. And even if you intend to use it in silhouette like that, I strongly recommend you to have it a bit more detailed when you submit it to the College of Heralds. You know, put a face on it and some other of the usual features.

As for whether it's a device or a coat of arms, it does indeed depend on whether you've an AoA. If you don't have an AoA or better, it's a device. If you have an AoA or better, it's a coat of arms. There is no visual way to distinguish them.

As for intending to get one, no one really intends to or not. There are no set criteria for such an award, it's totally in the gift of the Crown. You might wind up getting one someday! Especially if you increase your level of activity sometime in the future. It may happen.

Donal Mac Ruiseart wrote:Barring conflict, I see no reason why it wouldn't pass.

One bit of detail - heraldic dogs come in two types, the bulky talbot (mastiff-like) and the lithe greyhound. The dog you've got there in silhouette would therefore correctly be blazoned as a talbot. And even if you intend to use it in silhouette like that, I strongly recommend you to have it a bit more detailed when you submit it to the College of Heralds. You know, put a face on it and some other of the usual features.

As for whether it's a device or a coat of arms, it does indeed depend on whether you've an AoA. If you don't have an AoA or better, it's a device. If you have an AoA or better, it's a coat of arms. There is no visual way to distinguish them.

As for intending to get one, no one really intends to or not. There are no set criteria for such an award, it's totally in the gift of the Crown. You might wind up getting one someday! Especially if you increase your level of activity sometime in the future. It may happen.

Thanks for the info, I do appreciate it.

As for the AoA. I told my shire I don't want awards and to not recommend me for any. Seriously though. I told them not to bother recomendimg me for any SCA awards. A beer and a smile is thanks enough. We have an active member who just got theirs last year after almost 10yrs. I hope to beat her record.

I have only been in 3 yrs and only recruited a handful of people. My goal was 10 new members so for me to get an award, it would be rewarding failure. Maybe after I get 10 people in will I feel ok if I ever get an award.

Anyway on topic.

I think I might just keep the device the way it is. Do I have to add in more details? I am a sucky artist.

Technically it'd be "Per bend sinister" rather than "A bend sinister". </probably>

You don't need to add more details, it is recognizable as a dog just the way it is

I did a quick check, and I believe your device is un-conflicting as it stands. The closest I got was "Per bend sinister azure and argent, a wolf rampant reguardant maintaining an increscent counterchanged" - one CD for the change in posture (rampant vs. statant), and unless I am wrong (which has been known to happen) a CD for the change from dog to wolf. (Precedent in Jaelle of Armida's term, 1998, Dog/Wolf)

-Kol, who is weird and conflict-checks things for fun.

edit: I speel gud.

I think the other Clear Difference (once called Clear Visual Difference, and you will still hear the term used at least to explain the C-D) is the additional charge of the increscent. That's the one I'm surest of, anyway; canid v. other canid usually isn't -- possibly talbot v. wolf, but definitely not fox v. wolf. (Increscent's a crescent, of a particular orientation, opposite to the default orientation.)

I would not cultivate an allergy to awards and scrolls -- they are usually tokens of good esteem. The Society pays us in attaboys.

Nope, maintained charges don't count for visual difference.

Which I think is odd, but whatevs.

That is a damn good looking device!!!

Konstantin the Red wrote:I would not cultivate an allergy to awards and scrolls -- they are usually tokens of good esteem. The Society pays us in attaboys.

Awards are fine, but I think that titles and symbols are an unhealthy thing.

JvR: I am nearly healed. Are you going to start fighting?

Jestyr wrote:

Konstantin the Red wrote:I would not cultivate an allergy to awards and scrolls -- they are usually tokens of good esteem. The Society pays us in attaboys.

Awards are fine, but I think that titles and symbols are an unhealthy thing.

JvR: I am nearly healed. Are you going to start fighting?

Heck yeah. I hope you heal up real good. I want you to be the first to dent up my harness.

Halbrust wrote:That is a damn good looking device!!!

Thanks. I made 5 different devices and let my kids decide on which one. I am glad they settled on this one because it was the most simple and clean.

I do apreciate everyones input. Perhaps when I can later get more involved, heraldry looks to be a fun and interesting thing to try. I looked it over and it obviously requires some commitment. Huzzah to you heralds and those who take the time to learn it. Its really cool.

The first thing I joined the Society for was the fighting. I rapidly developed an interest in heraldry, having gone for a peculiar Device that exercised our impressive baronial herald pretty thoroughly, but he came up with a submission blazon. That was early days for Elric of Erewhon, nerdly, shy, and brainy.

I think you can still get him to sing his composition The Defenestration Song -- it was popular in the Barony of Tir Ysgithr around AS IX.

The language of the blazon has been helped far more then I could so I'll let the experts speak.

From a purely artistic opinion of my own: It doesn't feel very medieval to me. It feels like a sign at a dog-show. Like working breeds go to the blue and white areas, useless lapdogs go to the green and black areas... I think I saw a nearly identical sign of modern white dog on blue background above 'dogs must be leashed 9am to 6pm. Please clean up after your dog.' at the pet-friendly area of a beach in NC once.

Would you consider a black dog on a blue and white background? I'd recomend rampant but that would loose you a point of difference with the wolf blazon described above. Maybe black dog on a vair background? maybe reverse ermine (? white spots on black) on the blue/white background. Maybe black dog guardant(? one paw raised) with a red collar on your choice of blue & white background. Maybe multiple dogs, 3 stacked vertically or 3 in an inverted triangle depending on your prefered shield shape?

You are welcome to use whatever you want. I'm just throwing out artistic opinion.

I hope the registration process goes smoothly for you.

Sean

JvR wrote:Heck yeah. I hope you heal up real good. I want you to be the first to dent up my harness.

Be there tonight? I am likely going to armour up for the first time since my surgery.

Jestyr wrote:

JvR wrote:Heck yeah. I hope you heal up real good. I want you to be the first to dent up my harness.

Be there tonight? I am likely going to armour up for the first time since my surgery.

Unfortunately I cant tonight. Shuttling folks to the airport. Possible to get there later maybe but probably doubtful.

Sean Powell wrote:The language of the blazon has been helped far more then I could so I'll let the experts speak.

From a purely artistic opinion of my own: It doesn't feel very medieval to me. It feels like a sign at a dog-show. Like working breeds go to the blue and white areas, useless lapdogs go to the green and black areas... I think I saw a nearly identical sign of modern white dog on blue background above 'dogs must be leashed 9am to 6pm. Please clean up after your dog.' at the pet-friendly area of a beach in NC once.

Would you consider a black dog on a blue and white background? I'd recomend rampant but that would loose you a point of difference with the wolf blazon described above. Maybe black dog on a vair background? maybe reverse ermine (? white spots on black) on the blue/white background. Maybe black dog guardant(? one paw raised) with a red collar on your choice of blue & white background. Maybe multiple dogs, 3 stacked vertically or 3 in an inverted triangle depending on your prefered shield shape?

You are welcome to use whatever you want. I'm just throwing out artistic opinion.

I hope the registration process goes smoothly for you.

Sean

I appreciate your opinion and will give it some thought. I have another that may be slightly more medieval. Will post it up. Thanks for your input.

JvR wrote:

Sean Powell wrote:The language of the blazon has been helped far more then I could so I'll let the experts speak.

From a purely artistic opinion of my own: It doesn't feel very medieval to me. It feels like a sign at a dog-show. Like working breeds go to the blue and white areas, useless lapdogs go to the green and black areas... I think I saw a nearly identical sign of modern white dog on blue background above 'dogs must be leashed 9am to 6pm. Please clean up after your dog.' at the pet-friendly area of a beach in NC once.

Would you consider a black dog on a blue and white background? I'd recomend rampant but that would loose you a point of difference with the wolf blazon described above. Maybe black dog on a vair background? maybe reverse ermine (? white spots on black) on the blue/white background. Maybe black dog guardant(? one paw raised) with a red collar on your choice of blue & white background. Maybe multiple dogs, 3 stacked vertically or 3 in an inverted triangle depending on your prefered shield shape?

You are welcome to use whatever you want. I'm just throwing out artistic opinion.

I hope the registration process goes smoothly for you.

Sean

I appreciate your opinion and will give it some thought. I have another that may be slightly more medieval. Will post it up. Thanks for your input.

Welcome I suppose. It's not like I'm a competent artist or well-researched herald. At best I dabble.

I had to re-look at this once it was lunch. (Kind of limited surfing the rest of the day from work). The aspect to me that actually looks the most modern is the perspective view of the dog. Notice how the 2 back legs are clearly seperated but the camera angle of the front causes them to overlap so it looks like a single tree-trunk? You and I both know what it is but to a medieval artisan this dog sould have a pure side view, 4 clearly delineated legs, probably an open mouth and some added detail like eyes.

Just try a differnet dog icon in the middle and see how it feels to you.

I will say that this is FAR better heraldry then a lot of the resumes I see on shields. Thankfully your dog isn't clutching a sword in it's teeth or grinking a beer stein or superimposed on a spinning wheel. WAY too much of that in SCAdian heraldry.

Sean

Is there a heraldry generator program that actually works or a collection of heraldic charge clip art you would recommend?

I don't think there's a good heraldry generator program (yet), but clipart / other pictures:

http://www.modaruniversity.org/Heraldry2.htm#Clipart (List of links)

http://www.aeheralds.net/Links/AE_Trace ... leArt.html (The Pennsic Traceable Art Project, a collection of common charges in PDF file format.)

thanks I figured a heraldry generator would be a long shot since all the ones I'd seen were completely useless.