The Armour Archive

Here are some pieces I recently finished for the Pennsic house.
On the right; A small cupboard for my jockeybox/ keg, a corner wash basin cabinet and a hanging cupboard for my clothes.
The linenfold panels are cast urethane over luan. All the hinges are made from sheet or strap stock.
All pieces are pine.




Also I reworked some chests (2) I bought at Pennsic about 15 years ago. I reprofiled them and made new hardware.

Two words: Aw Some.

Aaand Chris wins the thread.

I yield.

If it's okay, I'm just going to continue to blame my tools for my camp stuff's inadequacy.
-Cian

I like woodworking but looking at Chris's work I feel like the Jamacian bobsled team the first time they saw the alps... It's just not fair!

OK, time to push myself farther!

Sean

Yeah...blows my stuff away.

Anyhue...I just realized I never posted a pic of the bench after I finished it (the one I did in SketchUp) to this thread.

So...




Top and legs are Poplar, coated in BLO.

Crossbeam is a pine 2x4. Pegs are red oak.

Pretty darn sturdy. Did well for Gulf Wars and Fool's War. Lots of folks liked it.

Chris viewing your work is the most soul shattering humbling, and at the same time incredibly inspirational.

Great work Chris. Very impressive

I don’t know what to say
I wish I could organize a weekend class for people at my shop; many of these things are straight forward and simple. Although one advantage is having the correct tools, however, the linenfold panels are the only "out of the ordinary" technique I think. This is a simple RTV silicone poured over a panel I bought on ebay, and a 2 part urethane to cast the panels.
The rest of the furniture (including hardware) was built using tools I am sure many of you have, if you have a shop.
If AA’rs want, I would be happy to have a class at Pennsic and answer questions and explain how to do some of these things (as best as one can at Pennsic). In most of these skills, I am no expert, but I would be happy to share the tricks and techniques I have learned if people think it would help.
Just let me know if there is interest in this and I’d be happy to host something at my house.

I'd be interested in a class on 'Hollywood shortcuts' or similar. I can do tons of research on how to hand carve a linenfold panel, I can find router and shaper dies to speed up the process, I might even find pre-cut linenfold plates that can be appliqued down... I would never have thought of doing an RTV silicon mold because I would have assumed that any molded object would have been visibly identifiable as such. Obviously you not just efficiently duplicated a LOT of and work in a single mold but you disguised it better then my best actual attempt would have looked.

In another week or so I hope to post bed pictures here. They are at best medieval-oid but probably the best piece of furniture I have ever built. I'm happy with the way it is coming out. (but it's not Sir Gaston's level)

Sean

polarbearforge wrote:I also built a slat bed for my wall tent. (I don't have any pictures and it's disassembled in the trailer covered with snow right now.) I used pallet material to build it (work lets me "clean up" for free) and it makes a rock solid bed. It's pretty similar to asbrand's, but not quite as tall above the slats.

Quite a few 6 board chests and a few based on the mastermyr toolchest. I didn't want totes all over the place, and these double as seats that I can sit on without breaking them.

Maeryk, I like the big box. Do you find the handles on that style of construction last under a heavy load?

Jamie

Yes. (Sorry, I missed this post entirely for some reason).

My fat ass is an official "heavy load" and I've been toted around in it. They are glued and doweled (Two in each end of each handle) and have NO signs of giving up. If I remember correctly, the handles are 1x3 (3/4 x 2.5)

Chris Gilman wrote:I don’t know what to say
I wish I could organize a weekend class for people at my shop; many of these things are straight forward and simple. Although one advantage is having the correct tools, however, the linenfold panels are the only "out of the ordinary" technique I think. This is a simple RTV silicone poured over a panel I bought on ebay, and a 2 part urethane to cast the panels.
The rest of the furniture (including hardware) was built using tools I am sure many of you have, if you have a shop.
If AA’rs want, I would be happy to have a class at Pennsic and answer questions and explain how to do some of these things (as best as one can at Pennsic). In most of these skills, I am no expert, but I would be happy to share the tricks and techniques I have learned if people think it would help.
Just let me know if there is interest in this and I’d be happy to host something at my house.

One question Chris (and I'm not knocking your skills, please understand).

How do you think they will hold up over the years?

I've seen some DAMNED pretty shortcut stuff that didn't last two seasons.. and some fairly rough knockaround stuff that has served, in rain and snow, sun and heat, for nigh on 20 years..

Where does your stuff fall?

everything I build takes into account seasonal movement, grain alignment, function.. not to say yours doesnt.. it's damned gorgeous and may be around for decades.. but how do you think it will hold up?

Everybody, nice work. I need to get motivated again but it's over 100 in my shop on a rainy cloudy day. Need to run a/c to it this summer.

Thor-

Maeryk wrote:One question Chris (and I'm not knocking your skills, please understand).

How do you think they will hold up over the years?

I've seen some DAMNED pretty shortcut stuff that didn't last two seasons.. and some fairly rough knockaround stuff that has served, in rain and snow, sun and heat, for nigh on 20 years..

Where does your stuff fall?

everything I build takes into account seasonal movement, grain alignment, function.. not to say yours doesnt.. it's damned gorgeous and may be around for decades.. but how do you think it will hold up?

It’s a good question, however these aren’t going to sit in snow or rain, this is furniture, not camp gear. All of the joints are rabbited or dadoed so they are built like most “good” quality furniture. On the small cupboard there are full mortise and tenon joints on all the 2 x2 pieces. I built each with the idea that they need to be moved (in and out of storage) far more than a conventional piece of furniture, so I have added triangle reinforcements to the inside of most of the joints. The only “short cut” is the cast linefold panels. I also had to keep in mind, these are pieces for a “hobby” and only being used a few weeks each year, so I didn’t want to spend weeks building them. (I think I have 2 to 3 days work in each including hinges)
The other struggle is keeping them light weight, if made from poplar or oak, they would be much tougher, but then I’d need 3 guys to move them. I had originally planned to make the hanging cupboard collapsible to minimize storage, but realized I have a place to store it, assembled, in the front of my trailer, so I got lazy. ( I also figured it would be more durable permanently assembled) I am planning on making a hanging cupboard like this for my real house. (With a little higher finish quality)
I don’t think the look has to do with durability as much as proper joint construction. I have seen “camp” pieces made from “2x4’s” that look so heavy and “clunky”, that they have no resemblance to medieval period furniture at all, but “they last”. Even in period there is a difference between “camp gear” and furniture. Even well built furniture, abused by being left in the rain, in direct sun, thrown into a truck, banged around as such, won’t be in very good shape very long. But, built from fir 2x4 lumber and held together with carriage bolts and painted with oil base enamel, like , say, lawn furniture it would stand up to that.

Last weekend I had a friend come down to make some ornamental straps for the door of her Pennsic House.

Starting with the stock, (scrapped landscape edgeing, old! and fairly heavy), she laid out a simple pattern with soapstone and then marked the transition points with a center punch then heating them in the forge we used a screw press to do the chisel driving and with 1 straight chisel and 1 curved chisel she cut out her pattern. (she held the chisels and I "struck" for her)

After they were cut out she worked the edges with a domed hammer.

Not nearly as fancy or as pretty but for someone whose prior forging was only a hook and a fork it was quite acceptable!

Oh yes it was 108 degF outside both days we worked according to the weather service and we worked in an unlined metal building with a forge running the whole time! It's a dry heat---much like the forge puts out! (my *hot* weather process is usually 1 hour working then another hour in the house cooling off and hydrating, repeat until done!)

Thomas

Though I think a class would be helpful, and chock full of "ah-ha!" realizations. But I think being able to craft items like Chris does are primarily a strong suite of balanced abilities. And being able to apply what someone shows me is often beyond my grasp.

Some of us have all the tools and skills necessary, but we lack the ability to interpret something that WAS and make it something that IS. Others may have a clear idea of the details but only have a vague impression of how to make those details into a real thing. And yet others may simply lack the tools, or the skills with those tools to be efficient in the construction process.
With enough time and measurements you can come up with an exquisite concept or an exact replica of something. With enough time and energy, you can learn a new skill or artistry. And with enough training, you can be tought 4,000 ways to use a sliding power miter saw to anything from notching square stock to doing 3d statuettes with it. But having all 3 of those skills in one individual is rare.

And as I reflect on my own experience on projects, perhaps there's a fourth ability, that of dedication to getting it right. Many of us wouldn't spend $80 on lumber and then when it starts to go awry say "This ain't workin', I'm going to scrap it and start over", or waste the mental energy of how this piece or that piece can be salvaged. Someone with the creative mindset could look at a projects starting to slide down the slope of the mountain, and yet still improvise ways to fix it on later stages of the project and figure 10 ways at the snap of their fingers to turn the "mess-ups" or skipped steps into a benefit end result.

I'm one of those that completely relys on vague concepts of what I want the end result to be; as well as self-tought harry-homeowner knowledge of tools and little desire to teach myself more (thank god for This Old House), and a great amount of faith put into dumb luck. And when the task starts to get too difficult to wrap my brain around it..slap some paint on it and call it good.
I think unless we have greater than average quantities of; creatvity, energy, skillfulness and determination, you'll always fall short of the stuff that guys like Chris will produce. When I met him at Pennsic last year, you can tell he is very energetic and driven about his projects. He has all of those attributes in demi-god level scores. And the thing that resonates in my mind from him commenting on how good his stuff looks, was him saying (and I'm paraphrasing here:)
"The best advice I can give you is; just make it. You might fail completely or you might end with something better then you imagined. And the worst thing that will happen is you will learn from doing it. And that's not such a bad thing."

I can't fault the logic, but can't bring myself to apply it.

It's also aweinspiring to see, not only how he figures out how to make something real, but has self tought (natural born) engineering skills he's developed, that sort of make you not want to look in a mirror for a couple of days after he shows you all the stuff he's developed or designed off the cuff.
Sort of like walking by a mirror naked....Don't do it. If you do, you won't go down the candy isle of a store for a week.
-Cian

Chris,
a class at Pennsic would be awesome. I was fortunate to tour your villa last year. I was amazed at some of the details that were subtle yet without them something would not have looked correct. You explained the method you used to make the floor - luan with routed lines and creative staining. You also discussed how the ceiling beams were boxed beams. I appreciate your willingness to share your methods. Any other methods you are willing to share would be greatly appreciated.

In fact, My fiance'e and I were in Santa Barbara four days over last weekend. On the way from LAX to SB, I believed we passed (over/near) your shop. I was so wished we had a opurtunity to drop by - I would enjoy seeing the methods at there source.

At the least, I would love to show Lisette (my Fiance'e) your villa this year. Last year she wasn't able to make it to War until late in the week.

Brilliant Work!

Christian Darmody

Chris Gilman wrote:

Maeryk wrote:One question Chris (and I'm not knocking your skills, please understand).

How do you think they will hold up over the years?

I've seen some DAMNED pretty shortcut stuff that didn't last two seasons.. and some fairly rough knockaround stuff that has served, in rain and snow, sun and heat, for nigh on 20 years..

Where does your stuff fall?

everything I build takes into account seasonal movement, grain alignment, function.. not to say yours doesnt.. it's damned gorgeous and may be around for decades.. but how do you think it will hold up?

It’s a good question, however these aren’t going to sit in snow or rain, this is furniture, not camp gear. All of the joints are rabbited or dadoed so they are built like most “good” quality furniture. On the small cupboard there are full mortise and tenon joints on all the 2 x2 pieces. I built each with the idea that they need to be moved (in and out of storage) far more than a conventional piece of furniture, so I have added triangle reinforcements to the inside of most of the joints. The only “short cut” is the cast linefold panels. I also had to keep in mind, these are pieces for a “hobby” and only being used a few weeks each year, so I didn’t want to spend weeks building them. (I think I have 2 to 3 days work in each including hinges)
The other struggle is keeping them light weight, if made from poplar or oak, they would be much tougher, but then I’d need 3 guys to move them. I had originally planned to make the hanging cupboard collapsible to minimize storage, but realized I have a place to store it, assembled, in the front of my trailer, so I got lazy. ( I also figured it would be more durable permanently assembled) I am planning on making a hanging cupboard like this for my real house. (With a little higher finish quality)
I don’t think the look has to do with durability as much as proper joint construction. I have seen “camp” pieces made from “2x4’s” that look so heavy and “clunky”, that they have no resemblance to medieval period furniture at all, but “they last”. Even in period there is a difference between “camp gear” and furniture. Even well built furniture, abused by being left in the rain, in direct sun, thrown into a truck, banged around as such, won’t be in very good shape very long. But, built from fir 2x4 lumber and held together with carriage bolts and painted with oil base enamel, like , say, lawn furniture it would stand up to that.

Thanks for answering! They had the look of "properly" constructed furniture.. that's why I asked. If you have the production equipment (table saw, drill press, dado blades, jigs, tenon machine, etc) that stuff can go together pretty quickly.

I kind of expect my camp furniture to look distressed.. it's camp furniture, after all, and designed to be what a Landsknecht would have with him, on campaign. So, beat up is normal.

and again, that stuff is drop dead gorgeous. But I agree.. too many stargazer chairs (which are ca 1960 boyScout not 1660 Viking) look like they are made to jack up semi trucks, rather than be furniture.

I tend to go off the measurements I can find on museum pieces when building stuff.. though my lines are often a bit off, as I'm using planed 5/4, rather than the much thinner stuff they used then. (Of course, the joiners had the luxury of getting exactly the right piece of wood for what they wanted out of the tree.. something few of us today have.)

Of course.. any of the pieces you showed (with the possible exception of the chest) would be as out of place on a campaign march as a carp in a privet hedge.

Cian of Storvik wrote:Though I think a class would be helpful, and chock full of "ah-ha!" realizations. But I think being able to craft items like Chris does are primarily a strong suite of balanced abilities. And being able to apply what someone shows me is often beyond my grasp.

Some of us have all the tools and skills necessary, but we lack the ability to interpret something that WAS and make it something that IS. Others may have a clear idea of the details but only have a vague impression of how to make those details into a real thing. And yet others may simply lack the tools, or the skills with those tools to be efficient in the construction process.
With enough time and measurements you can come up with an exquisite concept or an exact replica of something. With enough time and energy, you can learn a new skill or artistry. And with enough training, you can be tought 4,000 ways to use a sliding power miter saw to anything from notching square stock to doing 3d statuettes with it. But having all 3 of those skills in one individual is rare.

And as I reflect on my own experience on projects, perhaps there's a fourth ability, that of dedication to getting it right. Many of us wouldn't spend $80 on lumber and then when it starts to go awry say "This ain't workin', I'm going to scrap it and start over", or waste the mental energy of how this piece or that piece can be salvaged. Someone with the creative mindset could look at a projects starting to slide down the slope of the mountain, and yet still improvise ways to fix it on later stages of the project and figure 10 ways at the snap of their fingers to turn the "mess-ups" or skipped steps into a benefit end result.

I'm one of those that completely relys on vague concepts of what I want the end result to be; as well as self-tought harry-homeowner knowledge of tools and little desire to teach myself more (thank god for This Old House), and a great amount of faith put into dumb luck. And when the task starts to get too difficult to wrap my brain around it..slap some paint on it and call it good.
I think unless we have greater than average quantities of; creatvity, energy, skillfulness and determination, you'll always fall short of the stuff that guys like Chris will produce. When I met him at Pennsic last year, you can tell he is very energetic and driven about his projects. He has all of those attributes in demi-god level scores. And the thing that resonates in my mind from him commenting on how good his stuff looks, was him saying (and I'm paraphrasing here:)
"The best advice I can give you is; just make it. You might fail completely or you might end with something better then you imagined. And the worst thing that will happen is you will learn from doing it. And that's not such a bad thing."

I can't fault the logic, but can't bring myself to apply it.

It's also aweinspiring to see, not only how he figures out how to make something real, but has self tought (natural born) engineering skills he's developed, that sort of make you not want to look in a mirror for a couple of days after he shows you all the stuff he's developed or designed off the cuff.
Sort of like walking by a mirror naked....Don't do it. If you do, you won't go down the candy isle of a store for a week.
-Cian

NOBODY comes from the womb able to make stuff like Chris does. But most can, if they apply themselves. You don't start out building a linenfold chest. You start out building a trestle table.. or a box.. after a while, you learn the "little details" and "ah-ha!" moments with 4$ worth of stock, not 80. That's why shop class has you build a birdhouse or a breadbox, not the cradle of Henry VIII.

Just about anyone can do it.. but it takes trial, error, and most of all, patience.. and NOT starting three days before Pennsic.

Cian,
Thanks for the kind words. I think the ability to put things together is a little like language. If you start with learning your letters and the sounds they make, you can sound out words you have never seen before and then construct sentences you have not written before. I feel as most people are taught or try to jump into “sentences” to soon. If I am not sure how something is going to work, I do a test or a sample of the effect or technique. This way, I don’t risk a quantity of material without having a good idea of how it is going to turn out. As you learn these techniques or ways to use the tools at hand; “you’re letters and the sounds they make”, the more complex sentences you can make. Also it becomes easier to look at period examples and “sound them out”, figure out how to use your tools to make what you see. But, just like words, sometime you have to spell the word out on a scrap of paper to see if it looks right. If it does, then put it into you finished document. If it doesn’t look correct, then try something different, or look it up.
These “scraps of paper”, the pieces of material you experiment on, don’t add up to a lot in cost, but do add up in saved work and project materials in the end. The key is the willingness to admit you don’t know how something is going to work and the patience to take the time to experiment with it first.
It is not always the tools you have, many times it is the lack of “seeing” ways to use the tools you have to archive the desired effect. Other times…it’s the tools.

Maeryk,
I don’t have any specialized production tools. Most of the work is done on a table saw, miter saw, hand drill and router. I did use my mill to cut the mortises, but that could have been done with a drill and a rasp or chisel.

Christian,
Let me know next time your passing by and if I’m here your welcome to stop by. As for the house at Pennsic come by on Monday night for the archive meeting or check in anytime at the Bardicci front gate, if I’m in, I would be happy to show you and your wife the house.

Maeryk,
I don’t have any specialized production tools. Most of the work is done on a table saw, miter saw, hand drill and router. I did use my mill to cut the mortises, but that could have been done with a drill and a rasp or chisel.

Why have I run into so many people in the SCA who have made furniture with a Bridgeport? LOL.

Yes, you can cut mortises by hand.. but it takes longer, and is more fraught with peril. I love my mortising machine! (Even if it IS harbor freight junk). Even just to knock out for square corners of a hole I'm trying to cut, so I can run the rest with the jig saw.

It's funny, because I was looking at cutting them by hand and thought; this will take too long, how else can I do this and is it really necessary? Perhaps I could... duh!, I have a mill!
I was going to mention, when it comes to new "words", learning new things; When I got to the pegging step of the cupboard, I didn’t have any dowel stock, and didn't want to go to the store. Then I remembered seeing a video of a “traditional” hay rake maker, to make the teeth for his rakes, he cut small square pegs with a hand axe, and then hammered the square pegs through a sharpened round tube, “TaDa”, nearly perfect round pegs. So I grabbed a piece of pipe the correct size, sharpened the outside edge, clamped it in a vise and drove pieces of scrap 1x1 pine through with a mallet and had all the pegs I needed. I was nice, because they where pine and where slightly irregular so they had the right “look” and stained perfectly.
One has to remember: A “machine” is just a device that replicates the ability of the master, for the novice.

I sued to use a bridgport every day for work. So when I was on breaks I would use it to mill out things.
I also had access to a finger joint cutter.

I kind of miss working in the shop. I really miss the acces to all that great wood! Man.. Tiger and Birdseye maple all over the place!

MJBlazek wrote:I sued to use a bridgport every day for work. So when I was on breaks I would use it to mill out things.
I also had access to a finger joint cutter.

I kind of miss working in the shop. I really miss the acces to all that great wood! Man.. Tiger and Birdseye maple all over the place!

Finger joints can be really easy with even a table saw.. the jig is cakewalk to make.

Yeah but it was really easy to just drop it in, and turn it on.... I got pretty good at getting everything right for making blind fingers.

We were also supposed to be cranking out 5 furniture grade work benches week. And we had to finish them by hand. The machines came in really handy.

Chris Gilman wrote:If I am not sure how something is going to work, I do a test or a sample of the effect or technique. This way, I don’t risk a quantity of material without having a good idea of how it is going to turn out. <snip>
These “scraps of paper”, the pieces of material you experiment on, don’t add up to a lot in cost, but do add up in saved work and project materials in the end. The key is the willingness to admit you don’t know how something is going to work and the patience to take the time to experiment with it first.

This is the perfect example of why I like using SketchUp to model things. I can work out almost all of the joints, measurements, etc., with it before I ever purchase the first piece of wood.

And I don't even waste any scrap paper in the process.

Plus, you actually get to create the "finished" piece in 3D, and put together for you to see, virtually of course.

Now to hook the 3-d printer to a spray metallizer and skip the nasty forging steps!

Thomas Powers wrote:Now to hook the 3-d printer to a spray metallizer and skip the nasty forging steps!

Thoughts like this make me sad.

Chris Gilman wrote:Cian,
Thanks for the kind words. I think the ability to put things together is a little like language. If you start with learning your letters and the sounds they make, you can sound out words you have never seen before and then construct sentences you have not written before. I feel as most people are taught or try to jump into “sentences” to soon. If I am not sure how something is going to work, I do a test or a sample of the effect or technique. This way, I don’t risk a quantity of material without having a good idea of how it is going to turn out. As you learn these techniques or ways to use the tools at hand; “you’re letters and the sounds they make”, the more complex sentences you can make. Also it becomes easier to look at period examples and “sound them out”, figure out how to use your tools to make what you see. But, just like words, sometime you have to spell the word out on a scrap of paper to see if it looks right. If it does, then put it into you finished document. If it doesn’t look correct, then try something different, or look it up.

Thank you. I have been trying to figure out how to convey this message for a few years now. In the 21st century, I am amazed at the number of people that look at a piece of SCA furniture that isn't nailed together 2by as some sort of magic.

In blacksmithing it is quite common to make a prototype to prove in a design. These are often kept as a sample of the work and many a smith has walls covered by such interesting bits.

A sketch usually doesn't translate very well into how much time it's actually going to take---I'm still working on how to build some of Escher's drawings!

Just to be clear, when I said "spell a word on a scrap of paper" I didn't mean draw your project, (however you should) I was comparing the skill of writing with a building skill. I meant, try a technique with a scrap of material. I am amazed at the number of times I have witnessed someone trying a technique for the first time on an already started piece.

As for Escher, nothing is impossible:

I want to be chris gilman when I grow up!

Rayner wrote:I want to be chris gilman when I grow up!

This. +1

Well it's not Gilman level of work but I'm proud of it. My first attempt at inset panels. Yes I practiced on scrap and yes I used modern tools and no they aren't as nice as I can do next time but they came out pretty well all things considered. Based 5/4 pine with biscuts to join sections or routered overlaps. Lets call it 'period inspired' rather then truely period.


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Thanks,
Sean