braies question

[AndreasMorgan]

This may sound odd but after many years of not caring about period garb and such, I have been brought to the light and have been wearing braies and hose etc. Love it.
My issue is that while wearing the braies with the hosen tied to them they tend to slip down. They don't fall off thank god but they do slip far enough that they get all bunched up and look weird. Is there a way to avoid this?Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Andreas

[Keegan Ingrassia]

Wear joined hosen. But seriously, I'm just out of the time period for that. I'll let the mid-14th guys give tips on how to keep your braies up, without needing a stranglehold on your waist.

[Milan H]

First off, what kind of braies and chausses are you wearing? Typically the problem lies in the draw string/boxer short type of braies, which I personally hate. The draw string cuts and stretches, while the boxer short thighs get bunched up and come untucked. There is a pattern for braies that is worn on the bias, and fits smoothly over the thigh. Those are belted with the girdle belt, and the chausses are simply tied to the belt. I have never had a problem with anything coming untucked or riding down too much. It should be known that chausses may require a bit of discrete adjustment every now and then, but normally will be fine. I have two belts, one is a white cotton web belt with velcro closure (convenient) and the other is canvas and linen of similar dimensions with a tie string. Both work equally well at holding everything up, the velcro is easier to wear.

Check out the second pattern on this page for the basic braies pattern that I wear. I love them! http://thescholarsgarret.com/artifact/braies/

Cheers,

[AndreasMorgan]

Hey thanks Milan. I wear the 14thC braies with the drawstring and its the drawstring that is giving me fits. It's not a problem with the braies themselves but the fact that even for a large man I have fairly narrow hips. I appreciate the link. I believe that the belt thing will solve my problem. I will show this to my wife and see what we come up with.

Cheers,
Andreas

[Derian le Breton]

Maybe the braies are too large? I use the drawstring style and have no problem pointing my chausses to them.

-Derian.

[James B.]

The biggest problem I have is when I use the bathroom; when you retie the braies you have to retie the legging to get everything to sit right again.

On way around this is to used a belt to tie your hosen too instead of the underwear itself, this is known as a braised girdle. I am starting to go this direction myself.

[Mac]

I hold my hosen up with a belt and a pair of ring brooches. The brooches pass through holes on the belt, and remain attached to the belt. The tops of the hosen get pulled through the brooches.

This works well. The system is very adjustable. Ring brooches were found in similar positions in many of the skeletons at Wisby.

Mac

[Cellach_macChormach]

I hold my hosen up with a belt and a pair of ring brooches. The brooches pass through holes on the belt, and remain attached to the belt. The tops of the hosen get pulled through the brooches.

This works well. The system is very adjustable. Ring brooches were found in similar positions in many of the skeletons at Wisby.

Mac

Hey Mac - got a picture of your system. This sounds similar to something I was going to try. The difference being I was going to hang the brooches off of leather straps attached to the belt.

[James B.]

I hold my hosen up with a belt and a pair of ring brooches. The brooches pass through holes on the belt, and remain attached to the belt. The tops of the hosen get pulled through the brooches.

This works well. The system is very adjustable. Ring brooches were found in similar positions in many of the skeletons at Wisby.

Mac

I was going to try this myself based on the Wisby finds.

[Peikko]

I hold my hosen up with a belt and a pair of ring brooches. The brooches pass through holes on the belt, and remain attached to the belt. The tops of the hosen get pulled through the brooches.

This works well. The system is very adjustable. Ring brooches were found in similar positions in many of the skeletons at Wisby.

Mac

Hey Mac - got a picture of your system. This sounds similar to something I was going to try. The difference being I was going to hang the brooches off of leather straps attached to the belt.

I'm gonna second that call for a picture (heck a drawing might help ). Perhaps I'm being dim today, but I'm having trouble visualizing this set up.

[Mac]

Gents,

I'll try to post something later. It's such a ^%#$%^ to try to put pics on this site.

Mac

[Mac]

Cellach,

I'm doing the late 14th or early 15th C. , and I make my hosen quite high, so putting the brooches at the "blue jeans waist" is just fine.

As an aside; many guys who are doing the divided hosen of the mid to late 14th C make them *way* to short. This is one of the identifying characteristics of what I call the "Planet -14th-Century" look.


Mac

[Mac]

OK, I've snapped a pic, but no mater how low a resolution I use, or how hard I crop it, it is still too big to post. If someone out there knows a trick, I can send you the pic and you can post it.

Trying to put pics on this forum makes me curse and gnash my teeth....

Mac

[Cellach_macChormach]

OK, I've snapped a pic, but no mater how low a resolution I use, or how hard I crop it, it is still too big to post. If someone out there knows a trick, I can send you the pic and you can post it.

Trying to put pics on this forum makes me curse and gnash my teeth....

Mac

could you put the pic up on your site and link to it?

thanks!

[Mac]

I could, if I was savvy enough to use an FTP program...unfortunately, I am not. I might be able to get my wife to do it this evening.

Mac

[Cellach_macChormach]

I could, if I was savvy enough to use an FTP program...unfortunately, I am not. I might be able to get my wife to do it this evening.

Mac

if you want to email me the photo I'll resize it and get it posted here. if not, no big deal. my email addy is cellach@gmail.com
thanks again, I know posting images can be frustrating.

[Keegan Ingrassia]

If you've got a Flickr account, you can upload it there. It will give you the option of Small, Med, Large, and Full images. The medium most often works on the forum, being less than 600 pixels. If you don't have a flickr, you can shoot the image to me, and I'll post it up.

[Mac]

if you want to email me the photo I'll resize it and get it posted here. if not, no big deal. my email addy is cellach@gmail.com
thanks again, I know posting images can be frustrating.

Done....thanks!

Mac

[Cellach_macChormach]

Here is Mac's method

Mac - you run the hosen through both sides?

[Mac]

If you've got a Flickr account, you can upload it there. It will give you the option of Small, Med, Large, and Full images. The medium most often works on the forum, being less than 600 pixels. If you don't have a flickr, you can shoot the image to me, and I'll post it up.

Thanks, KI

I've got Picassa through my Google account (I think). Can you, or anyone else, explain to me how I might use that to host pics. Please speak simply and slowly, like you were talking to a foreigner, or your ancient grandpa.

Mac

[Mac]

Here is Mac's method

Mac - you run the hosen through both sides?

Thanks, Cellach!

I'm not sure what you mean by "through both sides". I pull the top point of each hose through the bottom of the ring brooch, and let the tongue of the brooch pop through the fabric.

Does that make sense?

Mac

[Cellach_macChormach]

Here is Mac's method

Mac - you run the hosen through both sides?

Thanks, Cellach!

I'm not sure what you mean by "through both sides". I pull the top point of each hose through the bottom of the ring brooch, and let the tongue of the brooch pop through the fabric.

Does that make sense?

Mac

I think I get it now, you basically pin them to your belt.

Thanks!

[Peikko]

Here is Mac's method

Mac - you run the hosen through both sides?

Thanks, Cellach!

I'm not sure what you mean by "through both sides". I pull the top point of each hose through the bottom of the ring brooch, and let the tongue of the brooch pop through the fabric.

Does that make sense?

Mac

Right...that make so much more sense. I'm going to have to try this. Thank you.

[Keegan Ingrassia]

If you've got a Flickr account, you can upload it there. It will give you the option of Small, Med, Large, and Full images. The medium most often works on the forum, being less than 600 pixels. If you don't have a flickr, you can shoot the image to me, and I'll post it up.

Thanks, KI

I've got Picassa through my Google account (I think). Can you, or anyone else, explain to me how I might use that to host pics. Please speak simply and slowly, like you were talking to a foreigner, or your ancient grandpa.

Mac

Certainly, sir.
-Going into your Picassa home page (https://picasaweb.google.com/home). There's a button titled 'Upload' next to the 'Home', 'My Photos', and 'Explore' tabs.
-Click that, and it'll ask you to create or select an album. You hit continue, and it takes you to a screen where you can upload your pictures from your computer.
-Click the big button in the center of the screen, browse to select the photos you want, and hit 'Open' on the file browser.
-Once the images have finished uploading, you can click 'Ok' on the bottom right of the window.
-The browser will then re-direct you to your album.
-Here, you click on the image you want to link, which will open up the single image in a large view on the screen.
-Looking to the right side of the screen, there's a column toolbar.
-Under the 'Tag' heading, is a link that says "Link to this Photo". If you click that, it opens up some options.
-What you're going to want to do is Select the size on that drop-down menu. Either the medium 400px or the medium 640px options worked for me.
-After you've selected the size, click the checkbox that says "Image Only (no link)".
-This will change the text in the "Embed Image" option, right above the checkbox. Select that text, copy it.
-Then you can come over to the Archive, put down an image bracket [ img ], and paste the text in. What should show up is below.

400px wide image:


And 640px wide image:

[Mac]

Thank you, KI!

That all seemed easy enough. I wonder if I can do it more than once....

Mac

[Keegan Ingrassia]

Glad I could help!

To do it again, print out my instructions, and tape them next to your computer for later reference. Its what my dad does at his office at home.

[bigfredb]

Thank you, KI!

That all seemed easy enough. I wonder if I can do it more than once....

Mac

Do you have a detail picture of the ring, perhaps?

[Mac]

Bigfred,

Here is a pic of one of the ring brooches. They are made of 3/16" (?) steel rod. As you can see, the tinning is badly worn, and I should really re-tin them.

Mac

[Mac]

Here are a couple of pics in the belt in use.







Note; that I just tossed this stuff on for the pics, and there are some wrinkles in the hosen. Normally, I would pull the hosen up a bit after the belt settled.

Any resemblance to Anthony Wiener is unintentional.

Mac

[Cellach_macChormach]

Thanks Mac!

[James B.]

Thanks for the pictures Mac (well at least of the belt )

I made a belt like yours last night with vegetable tanned leather, a 14th century brass buckle from Thor Thor's Hammer, and a set of Wisby ring broaches from Gaukler.

[Mac]

James,

Sorry about that guy in the pictures, but he sort of had to be there to put the belt into context.

Let us all know how yours works out.

Mac

[Klaus the Red]

Mac, that's a very clever solution. Do you know of any pictorial evidence for the use of broaches? I'll accept the Wisby finds at plausible face value and I'll gladly try this system on the strength of "Mac said so," but it would be nice to have another source or two to back me up if anyone asks.

Klaus

[Mac]

Klaus,

I don't have any evidence for it other than the Wisby finds.....or if I do I can't remember it now.

It's sort of a combination of the Wisby brooches, and the belt from this Donatello statue. http://en.wahooart.com/A55A04/w.nsf/Opra/BRUE-7YMRZY

The hosen on the statue are apparently held to the belt with laces, but I don't think it is an unacceptable stretch to do a "mash up" with the Wisby brooches. One so seldom gets a good look at how our ancestors solved these (normally hidden) clothing solutions that we must make leaps some times.

Why this great sculptor left the breas off of this putto is a question best left unanswered.

Mac

[Klaus the Red]

Another approach to consider, if you do end up pointing the hose to the braes drawstring, is to roll the waistband. In several pictures of men wearing long 13th - early 14th century style braes, the waistband at the front tends to be quite low, scooping under the belly, and in some cases the waistband/drawstring casing seems very puffy and substantial, as though the fabric is rolled into a loose tube. Check out the topless fellow threshing wheat in the Maciejowski Bible as an example: http://www.bumply.com/Medieval/braies01.html . (This is a somewhat extreme version of the look I'm thinking of, but it illustrates my point.) I interpret this by rolling the waistband down a couple of times in front so it rides below my hip bones, after the hose are already pointed on. This helps tighten up the chausses by pulling up on the points, as well as giving the drawstring a little extra padding and placing the waistband in a more comfortable "low-rise" position.