The Armour Archive

Cross Posted from Classifieds section - more information/suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I've found some that have a similar shape, but are not correct as they have either a large makers name or the handle is very short.

Hello All,

Does anyone have the ability to make or know where I can buy a metal fry pan of the medieval style - so that I can have it in the next 2.5 weeks?

The attached images show what I'm looking for as does - http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/cms ... agon-1.pdf - bottom right corner of page 7.

Any ideas on where to look or any armorers looking for a project?

Thanks!

Kim

1 remember *no* cast iron ones!

2 the quick and dirty way, as in say 1 hour tops is to buy one of the old pressed steel frying pans that were the *cheap* ones 50 or so years ago and cut off the pressed steel handle and forge and rivet on a long handle. I used to pick these up for a dollar at the fleamarket and do the conversion. I'd do one for you save that I am frantically trying to build stock for the NM State Fair which brings in the money to pay for my Blacksmithing conference purchases.

How big a frying pan do you need? I can see if I have any of the "starter pans" still around...

Thomas

If Thomas can't find anything appropriate, I have some "pan" stock and such so that we could forge the entire piece. However, I'll need someone to come down and help me with the forging, due to my "delicate" condition.

I think I owe your camp (or one of the later medieval camps) a spyder, anyway.

http://www.forgemagic.com/bsgallery/bsphoto626.jpg I can do frying pans, too.

The one trick with the long handles is to not make them so heavy as to overbalance the pan, or at least arrange an extra leg or rest for the handle.

OTOH having a long handle is quite handy when dealing with fire.

I have a round bottomed about 1 quart pot where the handle is bent down at the end to make the leg to hold it level when in the fire. It's a simple 90 deg bend and was based on a museum piece---If I was doing it I would have made a C curve so you could hook it on a horizontal rod when not in use and let it hang vertically Pots stay cleaner when not resting on the ground near the fire.

I might be able to work one in this week, depending, how big a frying pan and how long a handle and can they be shipped dismounted with a couple of rivets to be set after arrival?

Any particular time/place just in case there is a proper example in my research library?

Would something like this work if the handle was popped off (looks like it is held on w/two rivets) and replaced? A new handle is do-able for most ferrous metalworkers. Crafting a pan that's flat and thick enough is more of a challenge, especially within your time frame.

Tracy (Clare de Crecy)

I have a massive "cowboy" frypan where the handle is held on with wingnuts so it can be removed for packing purposes.

As Clare mentions one you have the pan the rest is simple.

Note that pressed steel pans should be seasoned like cast iron ones were and may take some practice using as they are often not as thick as we are used to nowadays.

Thanks for the replies!

Thomas - of course - no cast iron, but I will say that I did attend an open fire cooking class where they taught people to cook with the Cast Iron - not my cup of tea... I'm afraid that I don't know what you mean by the pressed steel frying pan - do you have a pic or can you elaborate - I can't find anything with google either...
For time and place - I'd prefer 14th/15th c in England.. and everything that I've seen has been only a flat handle, nothing curved or bracketed, but if you have something different, I would love to see it! Also, I'm looking for a 10-11" diameter with a handle that is probably long enough not to tip the pan over. I don't believe I'm looking for one with rivets - (how accurate are they?) - but fully attached.

Clare - thanks for the suggestion! I would say that in a pinch, I could use it as is, but I believe it has the brand name on the handle - in large print!

Atli - You might have an arrangement with Steve, but I'm not aware of anything. Also, no time right now to come down, but possibly this winter! Thanks!

Thanks for the help!

Kim

You know, they did start casting iron in mid 15th century Northern Europe, and we have a couple of cast object, including cannon barrels, extant to illustrate the point.

In example is a circa 1440 devotional St. George in the MFA Bostom (or it might be the MET, it has been a while since I looked at the catalouge), and several short-barreled 'pestereau' preserved in Switerland, a part of the Burgundian booty, circa 1460. Those are published in the recent cataloging done 4-5 years ago, strictly of the guns themselves, that was published a bit back.

The objects are comparitively crude castings, but they did occur, although I haven't seen a cast fry-pan. You also should consider that many fry-pans were earthenware, and even some were latten like a lot of cooking vessels of the day.

Chef - Yes, there were cast items, but I don't believe this technique made its way into the kitchen until the late 16th c/early 17th c.

I've used ceramic fry pans and owned them in the past, but for what i'm looking for, the metal ones fit my needs.

Thanks!

Kim

"Pressed Steel" is basically just that. You take a disk of sheet steel, put it in a press, hit the button and blomph you now have a frying pan shaped piece of steel. It lacks the evenness of cooking that thicker material like cast iron or Aluminium provide but it's *tough* and cheap.

Like this only in plain old steel: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ahl%29.jpg

(Though if you had one of those it would be simple to ditch the modern handle and rivet on a medieval one.)

Early cast iron was used primarily for "crude" items like firebacks (and cannon where piping can be a virtue!) They seemed to have taken a while to get good enough to do thin wall castings for pots. Hammered out pots are still considered proper for those who can't afford a nice latten one.

It is good to avoid the reasoning that since the first evidence of a technique dates to XYZ then anything made with that technique can be dated to XYZ (Elsewise you get Pharaohs in bluejeans!)

Holy $h!+

PHARAOHS WORE BLUEJEANS!

(But were they dyed with indigo or woad?)

Someone hit that guy with an OAR! (thunk; SPLASH, gurgle gurgle gurgle...)

You could try to contact these folks:
http://www.goosebay-workshops.com/POTS-KETTLES
http://www.stumpblufftradingpost.com/


Also have you considered copper? I believe I've seen quite a few copper pans/pots in museums.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Hammere ... 1c1e1963cc

There are a lot of good french hammered pans on ebay that could have a longer handle added.

Why the really really really long handle?


Wouldn't it just get in the way AND make the pan tip in the direction of the handle?
Or was it designed to be constantly held?

Baron Conal wrote:Why the really really really long handle?

Brick ovens.

if even with the weight of the food in it; it still wants to tip over, just stick a piece of wood under the handle! (or a trivet, rock, scullion, viking,...)

Baron Conal wrote:Why the really really really long handle?


Wouldn't it just get in the way AND make the pan tip in the direction of the handle?
Or was it designed to be constantly held?

mm.. in our kitchens today, quite possibly the long handle would "just get in the way".

But we're not typically cooking over actual fires in massive kitchen fireplaces where long handles that keep you out of the fire might be way more important than short handles that don't "get in the way" as much.

Balance depends on the overall weight and distribution - why would you expect the long handle to weigh more than the pan itself? I would expect that they probably recognized that possibility and made them so they weren't inherently unstable...

Thus the art of the matter: making a long, strong handle that has some balance with the rest of the pan.

Note: I have seen this done badly- a beautiful, elaborate handle, but no balance. Note how thin and graceful the handles appear in the illustration. If it is too long for balance, then a prop of some sort, as Master Thomas suggests, would be a standard part of the kitchen equipment.

Like the pommel of a sword, could one not simple add weight to the other side of the pan? Is there precedence for a pan that has a second, short handle on the side opposite of the main handle, such as the way larger pans are made today?



edit: Nearly committed Medieval career suicide by mixing sword terms.