The Armour Archive

What is your favorite Jousting harness? Training for heavy and working part time with a local faire group (theater) and want to get something nice put together that will work for both.

Cheers,
Wade

I am quite liking mine at the moment

Woodstock wrote:What is your favorite Jousting harness? Training for heavy and working part time with a local faire group (theater) and want to get something nice put together that will work for both.

Cheers,
Wade

If you want to joust and fight in it then your best bet is 15th/early 16th century harnesses. These have parts of exchange which allow almost complete safety in jousts, and greater movement for foot combat.

For such armours, here are some ideas:

Andrews above is an excellent example of an Italian harness.

Andreas has a lovely German armour, with exchange helmets for combat with lance or pollaxe/sword:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hp ... 6686_n.jpg


Actually, have a look through Destrier's photos.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id ... ?sk=photos
Any of the armours here work well for joust and foot combat.

If period, costs and space wasn't a problem I'd go for the complete Henry VIII garniture:


http://www.disp.duke.edu/~johnb/persona ... 0Armor.jpg

It features an awesome lot of exchange pieces for many styles and it's all excellent workmanship

If you're more budget conscious, but want the same style:
http://www.historicroyalpalaces.com/med ... 1892_1.jpg
http://www.historicroyalpalaces.com/med ... 2023_1.jpg
The last two are not so great for jousting though..

I disagree with Andrew, his armour would totally suck for me. I won't fit into it, or actually I will, but it won't work because of that. I love mine best. And that's precisely another important feature of a good jousting harness. It has to be made to be perfect for you. If it doesn't fit right, it can be a whole lot of trouble.

Your harness sucks Ben. It so fully lame. I am giggling as I write this. Yours stinks fella!!! Haha. Look at Ben's pics and cry people.

I guess the point Ben makes is so right. Your choice is personal and the research phase is so much fun. If you are going to do US heavy then don't go get a shark Perry harness ( they are well respected) but if you are asking the question here then you don't want a Rennfaire harness I suspect. Look at gestecht harnesses. Beautiful and built like a brick shithouse as we say.

Your harness sucks Ben. It so fully lame. I am giggling as I write this. Yours stinks fella!!! Haha. Look at Ben's pics and cry people.

I agree it stinks! That arming doublet really needs to be washed!

The fun thing is, Andrew's and mine are very similar, but both have distinct personal adjustments.


I like my armour to be light on the arms and legs and heavy on the crucial areas.
Regardless of it being hardened and tempered spring steel (in my opinion a must for jousting) my pauldrons are 2mm with a gardbrace of 2mm. Sallet is raised from 3mm with a visor of 2mm. Grand bascinet 2 mm, but jousting visor is 3 mm on the lower lip. Arms 0,5/0,6 mm.
Other people prefer to use the extra strength of spring steel to go lighter, but sheer mass provides a lot of protection.
It's a very personal choice and the only way to figure out what you like is to look around and see what others use and ask for their experiences. Also ask if you can look at and feel their individual pieces, it will help you figure out what you need.

Yes my friend, I like it!

OK now I gotta know where to get that apron.

Kaos wrote:If period, costs and space wasn't a problem I'd go for the complete Henry VIII garniture:


http://www.disp.duke.edu/~johnb/persona ... 0Armor.jpg

It features an awesome lot of exchange pieces for many styles and it's all excellent workmanship

If you're more budget conscious, but want the same style:
http://www.historicroyalpalaces.com/med ... 1892_1.jpg
http://www.historicroyalpalaces.com/med ... 2023_1.jpg
The last two are not so great for jousting though..

I disagree with Andrew, his armour would totally suck for me. I won't fit into it, or actually I will, but it won't work because of that. I love mine best. And that's precisely another important feature of a good jousting harness. It has to be made to be perfect for you. If it doesn't fit right, it can be a whole lot of trouble.

You can buy them at any historic royal palace shop.

For 16th century armour I would always go al'antica. Why wouldn't you?

This garniture is obviously made for Henry is his more corpulent days, but it's one of the best examples I know of for an elaborate garniture.

For style I'd want to have a cool Maximilian suit, with fico style etchings.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoog/3425 ... otostream/



This relief is sick too, but my waist really won't allow this...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoog/3418 ... 6608637148
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thoog/3417 ... 6608637148

zachos, got the full Negroli set? Nothing like having armour that makes your opponent *cry* every time they hit it!

Like Andrew and Kaos, I like a 15th century Italian-esque harness.

One day soon, I hope to joust in mine:



I agree completely with Kaos on having sufficient mass in at least some of the pieces on the head and torso to soak up impact, regardless of the steel's hardness. Thus, my cuirass and armet are very thick and heavy.

Kaos wrote:

Your harness sucks Ben. It so fully lame. I am giggling as I write this. Yours stinks fella!!! Haha. Look at Ben's pics and cry people.

I agree it stinks! That arming doublet really needs to be washed!

The fun thing is, Andrew's and mine are very similar, but both have distinct personal adjustments.


I like my armour to be light on the arms and legs and heavy on the crucial areas.
Regardless of it being hardened and tempered spring steel (in my opinion a must for jousting) my pauldrons are 2mm with a gardbrace of 2mm. Sallet is raised from 3mm with a visor of 2mm. Grand bascinet 2 mm, but jousting visor is 3 mm on the lower lip. Arms 0,5/0,6 mm.
Other people prefer to use the extra strength of spring steel to go lighter, but sheer mass provides a lot of protection.
It's a very personal choice and the only way to figure out what you like is to look around and see what others use and ask for their experiences. Also ask if you can look at and feel their individual pieces, it will help you figure out what you need.

I'll be in my bunk.
Some day, when my bank account can afford a new harness.....

It stinks doesn't it.

Some awesome comments and suggestions posted so far. I am really looking forward into getting into the sport. Have found a great trainer and luckily a boarding facility within walking distance from my house that is dirt cheap as long as I feed and clean, etc...

Andrew McKinnon wrote:I am quite liking mine at the moment

Andrew what kind of helm do you use for ground events?

This armet for ground combat and balsa jousting.


These spaulders as exchange pieces for foot combat too.

Kaos wrote: Grand bascinet 2 mm, but jousting visor is 3 mm on the lower lip.

Have you posted pics of this yet?
If so I must have missed it.

Your dawn photo shoot looks great!
Are those the same legs you got from Stanislav a few years ago?
Did you ever get the sabatons to work out?

Tom

Enrico di Venezia wrote:

Kaos wrote: Grand bascinet 2 mm, but jousting visor is 3 mm on the lower lip.

Have you posted pics of this yet?
If so I must have missed it.

Your dawn photo shoot looks great!
Are those the same legs you got from Stanislav a few years ago?
Did you ever get the sabatons to work out?

Tom

Hi Tom,

Thanks! These are indeed the legs Stanislav made me, still happy with them and they serve me well. In the grand plan of things I might need to replace them in two years, as they aren't perfect for the image I have in mind. Not entirely happy with the shape of the knees for example, but they function fine.
The sabatons never worked out to be useable, so I gave up on those. Hopefully next time I'll have more luck.

The grand bascinet is a work in progress at the moment. In fact it went to the hardening workshop this week. I went for a fitting in Sweden two weeks ago and am very happy with the shape. It's a replica of the Frederic the Victorious grand bascinet, with extra joust visor. I have a melee visor planned for it next year.

Here are some sneak peeks:






Andrew.. Please stop posting pictures of that armet. It hurts me..

I will stop for beer!

I'll bring some of the finest Belgian beers in May! Just let me know where and when!
I'll bring you the beer and you show me that cool kit in person.

No worries. Wit is the shit!!

Stop complementing each others armour so much. Everyone knows mine is the best. Why? Because mine makes me look a bit like Arne Koets. And what more could anyone want from an armour?

Well, I might as well post mine.

Late 15thC Gothic with a Great Sallet. Armour made bu Jiri Lucius, helmet by Alex Scheibner.





My Gestech and US style armour. Spring steel made by Alex Scheibner.



Fitted with the tiltbuff and grandguard (new GG in the works) for the US style.

And so the Armour wars began.... And Zac you take your turn like everyone else on International-I-want-to-be-Arne-Koets-Day...

I suppose it comes down to three things in the first place:
-budget
-styles you want to do
-period and area you like.

Garnitures are all very nice and well, but even at the time they were viewed as cumbursome and excessive, in that the vision slit is still the weak point. Also a garniture is only a garniture when it is all decorated the same, wich can double the costs.

The safest and most specialised rigs were the german early 16th c ones. These are very specific though and are irreversably changed from field kit.

The long and short of it is: either you need a grand guard for the requirements of the american style, and go for later armour, or you go for fifteenth century armour: the lats vestige of field armour adjusted for jousting.

I really think the easiest option is the hinge curass decause it is strong, safe when falling and trodden on, and you can attavh any helmet.
Frogmouths are safest, And gbs are most flexible.

Get good steel, get a good fitting curass with a good fauld, so you can ride well.

If you get a laters uit with grandguard, make sure a double tap doesn't knock your teeth out: goid thickness on the grand guard, secure fixing, but also good fitting helmet and padding.

A good arret in the right spot helps many styles.
Also get a shield that works, don't economise on it.

I like mine best, because it makes me look like me :-p (My interpretation of a Burgundian 1460's armour from the Brititsh Library Cotton Nero manuscript). Also what Arne said above.







http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm34 ... olshot.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm34 ... ing139.jpg

Kaos wrote:
I like my armour to be light on the arms and legs and heavy on the crucial areas...
Arms 0,5/0,6 mm
.

Wow! That is very thin. Something like 24 to 26 gauge.
Is this the final thickness after grind and polish or the initial sheet thickness?
How thick are your gauntlets?

Tom

This is the thickness after grinding, I checked again and it leans more to the 0.7, but still very thin.
This is for the vambrace and rerebrace only, the couters are ca 1.3 mm. They hold up very well, the temper is awesome.

My gauntlets are 1.6 mm mild steel, all three pairs. I recently bought a new pair on the Archive from Volodymyr Lunov, which will hopefully provide better lance control than my current favorite pair. They are more fitting for the style of my harness as well.
I hope to have funds for a spring steel pair in a few years time.. These are the only parts of my armour that's still mild. I have been planning this project since 2007. Hopefully it will be complete next year. It has taken a lot of patience, although I did take some detours by buying the current arms and some other pieces in between.
This is the brass of Richard Quatremayne on which it is based:

I think it's very interesting how this stained glass depiction of Richard Quatremayne also shows the same legs:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12591757@N03/page2/

Toby's is just too damned sexy.

Is it still for sale?

Kaos wrote:

Enrico di Venezia wrote:

Kaos wrote: Grand bascinet 2 mm, but jousting visor is 3 mm on the lower lip.

Have you posted pics of this yet?
If so I must have missed it.

Your dawn photo shoot looks great!
Are those the same legs you got from Stanislav a few years ago?
Did you ever get the sabatons to work out?

Tom

Hi Tom,

Thanks! These are indeed the legs Stanislav made me, still happy with them and they serve me well. In the grand plan of things I might need to replace them in two years, as they aren't perfect for the image I have in mind. Not entirely happy with the shape of the knees for example, but they function fine.
The sabatons never worked out to be useable, so I gave up on those. Hopefully next time I'll have more luck.

The grand bascinet is a work in progress at the moment. In fact it went to the hardening workshop this week. I went for a fitting in Sweden two weeks ago and am very happy with the shape. It's a replica of the Frederic the Victorious grand bascinet, with extra joust visor. I have a melee visor planned for it next year.

Here are some sneak peeks:






Andrew.. Please stop posting pictures of that armet. It hurts me..

Wow that looks great!
I bet you can't wait to put it to use.

Tom

I absolutely am, Tom!

As to Toby's armour, after having seen both harnesses in person I must say I like his current suit more. The MacPherson armour is a stunning piece of work, especially with the gilding and nice details, and as a hallmark for english armours, but his Italian suit by Per is most exquisite, with a likeness of originals not often seen in reproductions.

As for actual tips, Arne was very clear and helpful pointing these things out. In regards to the garniture, it's only if the conditions I mentioned were met and it server to start a discussion. Glad someone took the bait.
My true love will always be field harnesses with accessories for the tournament.

Kaos wrote:This is the thickness after grinding, I checked again and it leans more to the 0.7, but still very thin.
This is for the vambrace and rerebrace only, the couters are ca 1.3 mm. They hold up very well, the temper is awesome.

After grind and polish that sounds reasonable especially with good heat treatment.
0.5 mm seemed a bit thin if that was before grind & polish.
I expect your measurements are pretty close to what my new arm harness will be after grinding & polishing. I'll have to take some measurements after everything arrives.

Kaos wrote:My gauntlets are 1.6 mm mild steel, all three pairs. I recently bought a new pair on the Archive from Volodymyr Lunov, which will hopefully provide better lance control than my current favorite pair. They are more fitting for the style of my harness as well.
I hope to have funds for a spring steel pair in a few years time.. These are the only parts of my armour that's still mild.

3 sets of gauntlets!
I have a real weakness for good gauntlets myself.
It is a wonder that I have been able to get as much of my harness acquired as I have instead of having nothing but a big pile of gauntlets.

Kaos wrote:I have been planning this project since 2007. Hopefully it will be complete next year. It has taken a lot of patience, although I did take some detours by buying the current arms and some other pieces in between.

This I understand very well, I started my current harness plan back in 2005.
It has changed a bit since then but overall is the same.
2006 - Sallet & Bevor from Thadden
2008 - Leg harness from Prosek
2008 - 10 - Various mail pieces, Jack, soft kit & material goods
2011-12 - new arm harness + Spaulders
Late 2012 or early 2013 - Breast & Back plates

Back in 05 I had no plans for ever jousting, now it is something I would like to look into.
I will need to acquire a different helm that still goes My late 15th century German style field harness.
I am not too keen on jousting with my sallet and bevor.

Tom