Rectangular tent...a work in progress.

[Galleron]

G,

The problem is that it is tremendously easier to make and attach fabric loops than it is to do it like the 18th c. (and perhaps earlier) tents. I suppose that is why all the modern makers are doing it that way. To have a rope instead of a loop, one has to put in a reenforcing gusset and a couple of eyelets. Machine sewing such gussets involves a lot of cumbersome manipulation of the bulky walls....and I am not about to do it by hand. Also, to do the eyelets right they should be sewn in; and that's more hand work. It is such a great difference in the amount of work necessary that it makes the whole idea of experimenting a bit daunting.

At first blush, it seems like there are a couple of ways to do this without much fuss, but a bit of thought shows that neither will achieve the same result.....
--The first would be to simply attach ropes to the existing loops. The problem here (as I see it) is that by the time you tie a rope onto a loop, your "free rope" starts about five inches or so from the canvas. Perhaps this is not such a problem; and I suppose I should try it and see how it works.
--The other way would be to sew the loops higher up inside the tent walls. The problem with this one is that you no longer apply the tension to the hem of the wall.

Mac

Actually, what I meant was "If you, Mac, were doing another rectangular tent like the one that is the subject of this thread, is there anything you would do differently in the second version?"

[Mac]

Ah!

There are a couple of things I would do differently and some I would do more carefully.

I would...
--make the walls higher. They are at about five and a half feet for the convenience of my wife and me. They would look better at a bit over six feet.
--make the valence deeper. As it is, there is not really a good overlap of wall and valance. The wall attachments took up a bit more height than I expected. I think another inch or perhaps two would do the trick. In conjunction with taller walls, it would look nice.
--include an inner valence. It would class the place up a bit to not have to see the toggles that hold up the walls. I believe that inner valences were pretty typical.
--make the walls of lighter canvas than the canopy. I think a bit of weight could be saved here without compromising strength.
--have a bit more "swoop" in the curved edges of the gable gores. I think this keep them tight and wrinkle free.
--build in a bit more forgiveness in the overlaps at the doors. As it is, I have had to extend the toggle loops to get the doors closed when the canvas in damp.

I might...
--design in fewer guy ropes. I think I have too many.
--reduce the thickness of the "trees" and the ridge beam. They are a bit too big for this size of tent.
--try a different idea about the internal cross pieces. Perhaps a simple pin on each end, rather than the sheet metal hooks that I am using. The hooks work well and are very secure, but they are difficult to install and remove without endangering the canvas of the canopy.
--make the guys attach with hooks, rather than tying them in.

I should...
--figure out a good way to make the walls have ropes, rather than loops.

I am sure there is more, but this is just what came to mind.

Mac

[Galleron]

G,

The problem is that it is tremendously easier to make and attach fabric loops than it is to do it like the 18th c. (and perhaps earlier) tents. I suppose that is why all the modern makers are doing it that way. To have a rope instead of a loop, one has to put in a reenforcing gusset and a couple of eyelets. Machine sewing such gussets involves a lot of cumbersome manipulation of the bulky walls....and I am not about to do it by hand. Also, to do the eyelets right they should be sewn in; and that's more hand work. It is such a great difference in the amount of work necessary that it makes the whole idea of experimenting a bit daunting.

At first blush, it seems like there are a couple of ways to do this without much fuss, but a bit of thought shows that neither will achieve the same result.....
--The first would be to simply attach ropes to the existing loops. The problem here (as I see it) is that by the time you tie a rope onto a loop, your "free rope" starts about five inches or so from the canvas. Perhaps this is not such a problem; and I suppose I should try it and see how it works.
--The other way would be to sew the loops higher up inside the tent walls. The problem with this one is that you no longer apply the tension to the hem of the wall.

Mac

As to that, I have a thought. easier to show than say. The loop is a fabric strip, folded in half with the fold becoming the distal end of the loop. Before it is folded what will become the outer layer is sewn to the bottom of the tent wall. Then it is folded, and both layers attached higher up, as in your second method.

[Mac]

I am having trouble (as you predicted) following the description. Can you make us up a sketch?

Mac

[Galleron]

I am having trouble (as you predicted) following the description. Can you make us up a sketch?

Mac

See if this helps. The images show the bottom of the tent in cross section, with the wall to the left. Canvas thickness is exaggerated.

A is what I think is on my pavilion now. B1 shows the loop stitched to the wall bottom before folding, B2 after folding and final stitching, with S denoting stitching through the fabric.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4Ctj6 ... sp=sharing

[Galleron]

G,

The problem is that it is tremendously easier to make and attach fabric loops than it is to do it like the 18th c. (and perhaps earlier) tents. I suppose that is why all the modern makers are doing it that way. To have a rope instead of a loop, one has to put in a reenforcing gusset and a couple of eyelets. Machine sewing such gussets involves a lot of cumbersome manipulation of the bulky walls....and I am not about to do it by hand. Also, to do the eyelets right they should be sewn in; and that's more hand work. It is such a great difference in the amount of work necessary that it makes the whole idea of experimenting a bit daunting.

At first blush, it seems like there are a couple of ways to do this without much fuss, but a bit of thought shows that neither will achieve the same result.....
--The first would be to simply attach ropes to the existing loops. The problem here (as I see it) is that by the time you tie a rope onto a loop, your "free rope" starts about five inches or so from the canvas. Perhaps this is not such a problem; and I suppose I should try it and see how it works.
--The other way would be to sew the loops higher up inside the tent walls. The problem with this one is that you no longer apply the tension to the hem of the wall.

Mac

Why not try option one with your existing tent? It will either work or not, and if it doesn't you will only have lost some time and cord.

[Mac]

I am having trouble (as you predicted) following the description. Can you make us up a sketch?

Mac

See if this helps. The images show the bottom of the tent in cross section, with the wall to the left. Canvas thickness is exaggerated.

A is what I think is on my pavilion now. B1 shows the loop stitched to the wall bottom before folding, B2 after folding and final stitching, with S denoting stitching through the fabric.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4Ctj6 ... sp=sharing

You have an advantage over me here because you have seen your tent more recently than I have. I could not remember how I ended up dealing with the loops on your walls.

In your estimation, how well is that working? Are there any problems? What changes you you recommend?

Mac

[Mac]

Why not try option one with your existing tent? It will either work or not, and if it doesn't you will only have lost some time and cord.

I suppose I should. On the other hand, if the system we settled on for your tent is working OK, perhaps I should just re-do my loops that way. I need to do some work on the tent before next year anyway. This will give me an excuse to replace the bearings in my sewing machine motor. I bought some new/old parts for it over a year ago when it sounded like there was a good chance that it would crap out in the middle of your tent project.

Mac

[Mac]

See if this helps. The images show the bottom of the tent in cross section, with the wall to the left. Canvas thickness is exaggerated.

A is what I think is on my pavilion now. B1 shows the loop stitched to the wall bottom before folding, B2 after folding and final stitching, with S denoting stitching through the fabric.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4Ctj6 ... sp=sharing

I like the idea of tacking down the bottom of the loop, like you have drawn in "b". I think I would like to incorporate that idea, but move the loop up a bit. In the 18th c tents that survive, the eyelets for the rope are just above the hem. If the loop is sewn there as well as above, the rope should effectively pull from a similar point. Meanwhile, moving the loop up will go some way toward hiding the rope's attachment knot. Unless I am mis-imagining this, it should look like the rope just emerges from the edge of the tent wall.

I hope I can remember this when it's time to make my alterations....

Mac

[Galleron]

Relevant to this, I found some images from Swiss mss 1378-1513, in which the open end of a rectangular tent reveals some of the internal timber work:

http://willscommonplacebook.blogspot.co ... swiss.html

Tents designed for closed gables may have differed somewhat, but it's a start.