A Four-Panel Gown

[Sean M]

It is winter, so I am thinking of double gowns. The local wool is usually broadcloth widths (140-160 cm or ~60") and a four-panel construction works well on that. I am pondering the geometry of this example from Drei Schnittbücher p. 206.



Now do you see what they are doing there?

- The panels are cut as sections of a circle, the front as wide as half the cloth and the back about 5/4 as wide as the front
- The side seams on front and back are of equal length from hem to armpit, but the back is longer from armpit to shoulder seam
- The neck opening is about twice as deep on the back as the front
- The neck opening is rather wide
- The shoulder is more sloped on the front than the back
- The sleeves have seams along the bottom of the arm like a shirt, with the fattened 'cap' or 'crown' at the shoulderblade instead of the top of the shoulder (!)

I like the simple geometry, but drawing the shoulder seam makes me nervous. I am not sure where to place the junction between the sloped shoulder and the armscye, and not sure I believe them that the neck should be deeper on the back than the front. Having the armscye much taller from shoulder seam to armpit on the back than the front is confusing, and so is the cut of the sleeve.

Am I over-thinking this and its a baggy garment so the details don't matter so much? If the proportions on the original sketch are right, the front is about 30 cm/a foot wide at the level of the top of the shoulder, so it seems like the shoulder will be inside the body not inside the sleeve.

[Sean M]

Also worth saying: the original drawing in the manuscript from Linz is basically a pencil sketch ... so it is always possible that some details of the sketch are wrong. The would-be master who drew it clearly knew all the proportions, and just needed a refresher on how to lay the different parts out.

I re-drew it to make the geometry and proportions clearer.

[Sean M]

After looking at some other cutting plans in Drei Schnittbücher, I think I was overthinking this. Some variants of this pattern are as simple as folding your cloth lengthwise and drawing a 'snow angel' on it to get half the gown; others add even more material to the back. So I have cut a mockup of the body using my usual rules of thumb to draw the neck opening and shoulder seams, and next time I have access to a sewing machine I will cut the sleeves, sew it together and try it on.

I can use Charlotte J's "measure the sleeve at the shoulder and draw the armscye equally long, or measure the armscye and draw the sleeve so that the upper end is equally long" rule of thumb as a sanity check.

[Sean M]

I have cut the facing from wool and the lining from a wool-rayon mix. This will be a garment for everyday wear, so I am thinking about how to close the front. The 16th century Hungarian versions were closed with rope ties... would modern polyester braid work ok? I could melt the cut ends shut to stop it from untwisting ...

A late 14th century version would have a ridiculous number of buttons, because obviously.

[gaukler]

No.

[Sean M]

No.

Thanks! Because this is a modern garment to be worn around town not a reproduction to wear with historical clothing, I am having to think about how modern solutions will work in a modern context (badly fitted gloves, need to be visible in the twilight to drivers ...) Maybe oversized buttons every 4" or so ... I do not think hooks and eyes are a good solution for gloved fingers ...

[Sean M]

The light is wrong for photography, but just to show that this is finished:





Things I like about this:
- It is warm and snow-proof
- It pleats strongly and flares below the waist
- Anyone can make one of these using a length and width of cloth which were commonly used for gowns from the 14th century to the 16th and which is commonly available today

Things I don't like:
- The front opening wants to pull open about 1 cm or 1/2", especially over the breast. Using selvage for the front and back seams does not match how bodies are shaped ... it worked on the eight-panel gown from Greenland though
- It seems to want to shift back on my shoulders when I pull it on. That could be the cut of the shoulders, or could be that the back is a bit wider than the front.
- The collar is a bit too small
- I cut it with the seam at the armpit and the shoulder cap at the back of the shoulder, I now suspect that it was a back-of-the-arm seam with the fleshed out cap at the top of the shoulder. That is no problem for cycling, but the coat does drag downwards when I raise my arms.
- I want slits in the side seams to let me reach my pockets

[Mac]

What's going on with the hem? It looks significantly longer on the left that it is on the right.

Mac

[Sean M]

Hi Mac!

When I put my hand on my hip, I pulled the gown on that side forward a bit. That could be the explanation. Both back panels and both front panels were cut on the fold so the lengths -should- be the same, and when I fold it lining-to-lining along the back seam and lay it facing-up on the floor, the bottom hems are within 2-3 cm/1" of the same curve

I should also mention that I cut the lining a few cm too narrow. I solved that by inserting two narrow rectangular pieces, one along the back seam of the lining and one at the front opening of the lining by the hooks and eyes.

I will take more photos on a sunny day and send them by DropBox. Uploading things here is slow and keeps timing out and I am cautious about photos of my face on the Internet.

[Mac]

Ah! I see.... the neck opening is too wide to keep the garment centered on your body. That's a surprising result of a seemingly small thing.

Mac

[Sean M]

Ah! I see.... the neck opening is too wide to keep the garment centered on your body. That's a surprising result of a seemingly small thing.

Mac

Hi Mac,

that is counterintuitive but could be. The collar seam is 2 x 26 cm long, and my neck is 38 cm. As noted, the collar does not want to close. It could be that in trying to allow room for collared shirts and maybe a scarf underneath, I hit a 'bad spot' between a close collar like a 16th century doublet and a wide neck hole like the Bocksten cloak.

The notebook with all of my sewing projects went missing in the last trip to the hardware store, so I can't check what measurements I intended to use.

[Sean M]

I think that this picture shows why this cut was popular in the 16th century:



Those are the leftovers from 2.70 x 1.40 metres of wine-red wool.

It is good to know that tailoring cost about 10% as much as the materials and notions, and most people made simple clothing. It was pretty common to give servants standard amounts of fabric and let them worry about making them up. A tailor's business was convincing people that he could take expensive materials and make them up better then they or their wife or children or servants could do it for free.