1360s Scabbard Project

[Sean M]

Dimicator likes to hollow his scabbard slats with a draw-knife with a convex blade. That would probably be a better choice for a sharp than a blunt though!

Apparently Geibig the expert on Viking Age swords has seen traces of a tongue-and-grove joint in scabbard timbers from that period.

[Marshal]

Apparently Geibig the expert on Viking Age swords has seen traces of a tongue-and-grove joint in scabbard timbers from that period.

Boy, that seems like over-engineering...

[Mlanteigne]

Sean, where did you buy the slats from? Was it here in Canada?

[Sean M]

Matt, I checked OBI, the main giant orange home improvement store in Austria. They sell beech slats in 5 x 40 and 10 x 60 mm. You could try balsa-wood at model railway shops or rolls of veneer, oak might not be ideal but in the early middle ages there is a variety of wood in surviving scabbards.

PARMA in Victoria built scabbards of veneer wrapped in linen wrapped in leather with glue holding the layers together. I suspect some late medieval scabbardmakers used a linen layer, even if it was not typical l.

[Sean M]

This has been stuck while I looked for tools to hollow out the wood. None of the shops in Innsbruck carries anything appropriate (one used to have some gouges from Pfeil, Stubai is an Austrian brand), and most of the draw knives in online stores are too big with long handles ... not the best choice when your work surface is an ordinary table.

I ordered a carving set from Ramelson in the 'states.

Also: surviving scabbard slats from the early middle ages are usually 1 - 2 mm thick. Scabbard construction and shield construction seem to have a lot in common.

[tiredWeasel]

Sean, Morakniv (Mora of Sweden) carries a couple hook knifes for woodcarving. I don't know if they're to small for using on a scabbard but every knife or gun store should be able to order them for you.

€dit:
Plus most major knife wholesellers carry some knives and chisels for woodworking. Most knife and gun shops don't have them in stock but they should be able to order them.

[Sean M]

Sean, Morakniv (Mora of Sweden) carries a couple hook knifes for woodcarving. I don't know if they're to small for using on a scabbard but every knife or gun store should be able to order them for you.

€dit:
Plus most major knife wholesellers carry some knives and chisels for woodworking. Most knife and gun shops don't have them in stock but they should be able to order them.

Yeah, the only things available in the various hardware, home improvement, and Eisenwaren stores are big square chisels which are exactly the wrong tool for this.

If someone has tried hook knives with a ˀ shaped blade for this I hope they post in this thread.

I had not thought of asking at places like Jagdwaffen Fuchs and the various places with big hunting and fishing and 'tactical' knives in the window. Generally, though, if I have to order a tool without holding it in my hand, it seems easier to order directly from the manufacturer than to pay a middleman.

[Sean M]

The anonymous blogger at Diverse Arts found what may be a late 14th century scabbard throat, Portable Antiquities Scheme NMS-1F4AA7 ... it does not have any sign of attachments though. I wish we had a photo of the side with the rivet.

It seems like chapes and throats were usually of thicker metal than I guessed, like close to 1 mm, and that they were often soldered, brazed, or riveted closed.

[gaukler]

That locket looks fine. It’s just as badly constructed as most of the chapes I’ve seen. The decoration is nicely done, though.
Did I send you a photo of the Salisbury locket?

[Sean M]

The one with inventory number 119R.817 and two rings on the back? I just re-downloaded it with a better filename.

A lot of the people buying scabbards today want them to be beautiful gems, but that is not what I see in the Portable Antiquities Scheme and the surviving scabbard leathers. The join in the chape is up the back, as long as it holds it doesn't have to be pretty!

[Sean M]

The Sword in the Age of Chivalry mentions one more late medieval scabbard: the sword of emperor Sigismund I for the Order of the Dragon, KHM Wien, Hofjagd- und Rüstkammer, A 49 (made circa 1433). It has a sheath for a by-knife and is of "pressed leather"; no sign of a locket or attachment for a belt.

I think that the big lockets we see in the effigies ended up in the crucible with the plaque belts.

[Sean M]

The hand carving set arrived and I set to work on the beechwood. Beech feels nice and holds together well, but this dried wood (it has been sitting in my apartment for a year) is maybe harder than is ideal.

While the fancy lockets in effigies can be intimidating, basic chapes don't require many tools or skills. Here are some finds from England.

• LANCUM-886FEF Sheet copper-alloy rolled with a knop applied to the point, no visible fastening at the seam
• SWYOR-601C96 Sheet copper-alloy 0.6 mm thick rolled around the tip of the scabbard, overlapped and soldered closed, the tip slit and folded together
• NLM-974F94 here the sheet is 0.5 mm thick
• OXON-E75F00 ugly but they are explicit that the lapped seam was soldered and then the knop was soldered in place
• SUR-997ED7 Some engraved decoration, and the seam is nice and solid
• PUBLIC-F103E8 U-shaped chape, again from folded and slit copperalloy sheet
• DENO-265393 This is like a five-sided box but there are the remains of iron rivets in holes; a few other chapes have single or paired rivet holes near the upper edge
• BERK-85F302 a (cast?) 'half clamshell', I would bet that it was brazed or soldered to a matching half and fell apart at some point

You can search the Portable Antiquities Scheme for object type: SCABBARD for more, but if you just want some bling which reinforces the tip of the sheath, you don't need to be Paul Revere or Bernardo Cennini.

I am going to see if the local model railroad shop has brass sheet, the local hobby shop just has the 0.3 mm which I used for the rondel scabbard. I could also check the local Stahlhandel for drops and offcuts (even galvy could work ok as ersatz "tinned iron").

[tiredWeasel]

I managed to get thin slats (2mm thick, 100mm wide) and tested them on my blunt long sword. Works great, they bend without steaming or watering, but they are fir, not beechwood.
I always heard that blunt swords pose a problem to the simple slat constuction, but I'm pleased with the result.
The blade is (at the hilt) 4,5cm wide while the slats are 6,5cm wide. This of course tapers toward the point. It may be possible to make the scabbard smaller, but not terrible so.

I always tried scabbards with a "filler" and although they may be a bit smaller they always look far to boxy and much larger than seems to be right for late medieval scabbards.

[Mac]

I had never paid much attention to chapes, and am surprised to see the typical method of closing the end like a bell.

This is certainly the nicest of them.



I would look for brass between about .7mm and 1mm. The shaping can be done with a small nylon, wood, or rawhide hammer over a hard wood mandrel if the brass is annealed first. A steel mandrel would be better, and that's probably what I would do; especially if I were going to make more than one.

Mac

[Harry Marinakis]

...am surprised to see the typical method of closing the end like a bell.

My thoughts exactly.

I just started making metal lockets and chapes for scabbards, and wondered how they were made in period. Now I know. I'm disappointed, really.

I would look for brass between about .7mm and 1mm. The shaping can be done with a small nylon, wood, or rawhide hammer over a hard wood mandrel if the brass is annealed first. A steel mandrel would be better, and that's probably what I would do; especially if I were going to make more than one.

I've used 20 gauge brass/bronze (0.8 mm), but 18 gauge (1 mm) would be better. I was thinking about making a chape mandrel. But I have a 70-pound anvil, and just ground the point of the horn for my mandrel. Works great.

Annealing is key. The brass/bronze hardens back up with work and soldering.

[Mac]

I just started making metal lockets and chapes for scabbards, and wondered how they were made in period. Now I know. I'm disappointed, really.

There are a couple of things I wonder.

The first is whether the solder joints are overlapped or butted. The one is stronger and the other is neater. I almost think I'm seeing a lap on the long seam and butting on the shorties at the tip.

The second is whether this construction is more or less universal for this type of chape. It seems like the nicer ones will have been more like jeweler's work, and I would expect better seams (and fewer or them) on those.

Mac

[gaukler]

The sheet metal chapes I've seen are usually badly made.
Here are five sheet chapes and one locket from my collection. 10487 is the most typical style; the others are more up-market:) No signs of solder on any of them.
I measured the metal thickness of these and some I've got for sale ( http://www.medievalwares.com/ ). There is a cluster at 20 gauge (.032 on my American Standard Wire Gauge for Non-Ferrous Metals) and at 25 gauge.
https://imgur.com/a/Le9PkK4
Let me know if you'd like to see other views or close-ups of any of these.

[Sean M]

Harry, I am just glad to be reminding people that metal fittings are something they can learn to make. Basic jeweler's/coppersmith skills like soldering and brazing and chasing would help (put up flyers around the local community college or art school asking for quotes?), but if you can make a spaulder you can make a simple wrought chape. If someone could order a few dozen, folks like gaukler or Mac would probably be happy to cast them copies of the 'scallop shell' type.

For me in my tiny apartment metalwork would be a challenge, but most of the armourers here could figure it out on a Saturday morning.

If you look at TRCustomKnives on YouTube, he starts out with enthusiasm, a handful of tools, the cheapest salvaged materials, and a picture of an 18th century hanger scabbard and he comes up with a locket with a hook which would probably work OK (he files two notches in a copper bar, bends it into a U-shape with a vise and hammer, and rivets it inside the locket).

Datini offered scabbard furniture in your choice of brass and tinned iron. "Prenegard, prenegard, Thus bere I myn baselard" mentions one with a "clene loket of led" (pewter?), the rich had silver fittings. The only problem with galvanized mild steel would be that you can't anneal it without releasing DEADLY ZINC FUMES.

I have access to a fireplace with a wood fire. I do not have blacksmith's tongs but I might be able to find some fire tongs at an antiques/junk store or flea market. Can a wood fire with nice hot coals work OK for annealing? How do you judge when it is cool enough to work again?

The first is whether the solder joints are overlapped or butted. The one is stronger and the other is neater. I almost think I'm seeing a lap on the long seam and butting on the shorties at the tip.

Now see, this is why its good to have metalworkers looking at this, because I had not imagined that there were some of these where they brazed or soldiered the joints in the petaled-and-folded-together tip. But when I look at the photo, I see what you mean.

I think Tod brazed the long side seam of the chape of my baselard, because he has customers whose idea of cheap metalwork is IKEA products, but the petaled tip is just butted.

[Mac]

The sheet metal chapes I've seen are usually badly made.
Here are five sheet chapes and one locket from my collection. 10487 is the most typical style; the others are more up-market:) No signs of solder on any of them.

Would you expect to find solder on ground finds like these?... or does it typically oxidize away like the solder that must have held the plates onto forked buckle frames?

It just seems to me that the long, overlapped seams cry out for solder.

Mac

[gaukler]

The solder on FSP buckles often fails, but it frequently leaves a trace. There are signs of tinning on my typical style example, but no signs of solder in the overlap.
Solder would have cost the maker some money, and wouldn’t have improved the appearance.

[Harry Marinakis]

The first is whether the solder joints are overlapped or butted. The one is stronger and the other is neater. I almost think I'm seeing a lap on the long seam and butting on the shorties at the tip.

I'm new at this, but here is my take:

Looking at some of the photos above, they all seem to be lapped - and poorly done. The lockets have to lapped, to make them strong enough to hold the weight of the sword.

The chapes seem to be lapped, too, and the manner in which the tips are closed makes sense to me. The chapes are made from a single sheet, lapped, and the end is closed like a bell.

I have made a couple of chapes using butted seams. Two halves of a clamshell butted together and soldered. Doing this is a real PITA to accomplish successfully, but the end results is nice and clean, you can't even see the seam.

No signs of solder on any of them.

I wonder if you would see some solder if you pried open the lapped seam. One of the chapes seems to be held together with a staple!

[Harry Marinakis]

So here is how I have managed to make lockets and chapes:

The typical method for soldering goes like this:
1. Clean and polish the metal seams
2. Apply flux
3. Clamp the pieces together
4. Heat the metal until the flux sizzles, then apply the solder
5. The solder should naturally flow into the seam
6. Allow to air cool

But I ran into problems using this method, especially with clam shell chapes. Working on one side of the chape or locket heats up the opposite seam that you just finished, melts it, and it pops apart. Catch 22. So here's what I do:

1. Clean and polish the metal seams.
2. Apply flux.
3. Do not clamp the pieces together, treat them separately.
4. Heat the metal seams until the flux sizzles, then apply the solder to the seams.
5. Allow to air cool.
6. Sand down the seams, leaving just a thin veneer of solder on the seams.
7. Remove any solder that isn't going to be part of the seam. A wire wheel works great for removing excess solder.
8. Clean the seams and de-grease with acetone.
9. Apply more flux.
10. Clamp the pieces together.
11. Note that at this stage, you have a veneer of solder pre-positioned in the seams. No need to add more solder.
12. Heat the seam just enough to liquify the solder veneer that is pre-positioned in the seam.
13. Allow to air cool.

The advantage of my method is (a) you don't make a huge mess dripping solder all over the place, and (b) you don't have to heat up the entire metal piece as hot as you would otherwise (and thus you don't melt out other seams that you've already finished).

Here is my first attempt at soldering a clamshell chape. It was a F-ing mess! Laugh with me, not at me.

[Mac]

Solder would have cost the maker some money, and wouldn’t have improved the appearance.

I was prepared to say something to the effect of "while it did not improve the appearance, it would probably improve the likelihood of it staying on the scabbard".... but then I remembered that these are metal detector finds. They have (almost by definition) failed to stay on the scabbard.

Mac

[Harry Marinakis]

Here is my soldering set up. I use a small butane pencil torch, and a plumber's soldering kit from Home Depot. It has water-soluble flux, and the solder seems to melt at a reasonable temperature. DO NOT use petroleum flux.

[Harry Marinakis]

If you add solder, instead of "pre-positioning" the solder, then you can get a big mess to clean up. And there's no guarantee that the solder will fill the entire lap joint.

[Mac]

Here is my first attempt at soldering a clamshell chape. It was a F-ing mess! Laugh with me, not at me.

I think I would use iron binding wire to hold the parts together. Also, if you can keep the flux from running out of the joint, the solder will stay where you want it.

But, you know.. that cheesy "one lapped seam and a bell closure" type is sort of self clamping. That solves one problem right there.

Mac

[Harry Marinakis]

When I made this locket, I had gobs of solder to clean up. When I switched to the "pre-positioning" method, the solder was where it needed to be and I didn't have this big mess to clean up.

Plus, When I tried to attach the rings, the locket got so hot that the lapped seam in the back melted out and popped open. When I went back and fixed the lap seam, the ring fittings got too hot and fell off. Back and forth. Drove me F-ing crazy.

The solder is damn strong. I tried to rip apart the soldered fittings with my bare hands, couldn't do it.

[Harry Marinakis]

Here is a clam shell chape with butted seams. You have to sand the two halves to fit perfectly together - PERFECTLY - before soldering. But when you're done, you can't tell there is even a seam there unless you stick your nose right up to the chape.

[gaukler]

Many of them seem to have been attached to the scabbard with rivets/nails. That would do a better job holding it on than soldering.

[Harry Marinakis]

I think I would use iron binding wire to hold the parts together.

Might work for a clam shell or butted seams. But for a lapped seam, you have to make sure that the entire overlap is clamped together tightly. Wire can't do that.

Many of them seem to have been attached to the scabbard with rivets/nails. That would do a better job holding it on than soldering.

Yeah. And when I tapped my first clamshell chape into place, it split.

I am certainly going to change my ways after seeing these photos of chapes.

I have access to a fireplace with a wood fire. I do not have blacksmith's tongs but I might be able to find some fire tongs at an antiques/junk store or flea market. Can a wood fire with nice hot coals work OK for annealing? How do you judge when it is cool enough to work again?

A MAP gas torch is all you need for annealing sheet brass, and a bucket of water. Heat until orange, then quench. Annealed. Working the brass and soldering hardens it again. Or you can harden by heating until orange and then air cool. You don't need tongs, a set of old pliers works fine.

[Mac]

I tried making up a chape over a hardwood mandrel. I used .032" brass, and that seemed plenty thick enough. It was a very limited sort of success, however.



There must be something I'm missing about closing the end.



I may try this again later, and see if I don't have a better idea.


Mac

[Harry Marinakis]

We'll done
When you've got it down, feed us some tips

[Sean M]

Where does this term 'bell closure' come from? All the bells I know are cast, right? There is still one bellfounder in Innsbruck even though all the Plattner own farms or print posters.

I have access to a fireplace with a wood fire. I do not have blacksmith's tongs but I might be able to find some fire tongs at an antiques/junk store or flea market. Can a wood fire with nice hot coals work OK for annealing? How do you judge when it is cool enough to work again?

A MAP gas torch is all you need for annealing sheet brass, and a bucket of water. Heat until orange, then quench. Annealed. Working the brass and soldering hardens it again. Or you can harden by heating until orange and then air cool. You don't need tongs, a set of old pliers works fine.

I am not interested in buying yet another new tool for something I will make once. Its too 'let them eat cake' in a world where greenhouse gas emissions are still headed upwards, and where I am likely to move internationally every few years until I am 40, my tiny apartment is more than full and the sewing space has a lot of dust and fabric around. If I had a dozen metalwork projects in mind which require heat it would be different.

I also have no income and have put more time, money, and energy than I really should into this.

Could you answer my question about the source of heat which I do have? That costs 0 Euros 0, requires 0 minutes in front of a browser wrestling with online stores (part of the point of this is to get away from books and keyboards), and I have enough experience with it that I am pretty sure I would not set myself or the workspace on fire with it.

[Sean M]

Also, one of the archaeological reports, maybe Carol van Driel-Murray or Leather and Leatherworking from Anglo-Saxon and Medieval York, estimates that the scabbard leathers were a few fingers longer than the sword. I thought that was to allow for the unsealed wood to expand and contract in the field, but it might also make sure that any little rivets supporting the chape don't scratch the blade.

Someone on MyArmoury has an 18th century tulwar scabbard with tiny headless rivets holding the chape in place.

[Keegan Ingrassia]

Brass starts to anneal at 500° F. Getting brass to 800°F will only take a few seconds to anneal...this is roughly around when the brass is glowing orange.

Different wood burns at different temperatures...flames from wood occur around 500° F...oak burns at 900-1200° F.

So, your fireplace should work fine, just do what Harry said. Get your brass glowing orange, then toss it in water. Badda-bing, badda-boom, annealed soft and ready to work.