16th century rowboat

woodwose · Post by **woodwose** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:15 pm

For the last couple years I've been expirementing with my approximations of 16th century german/lansknecht clothing while camping and hiking... another random interest of mine is sea kayaking and camping (I don't have a car but live next to a river that can get me to the ocean in a day or so of paddling), so I got the great idea that I could combine those two interests by building a small boat appropriate to my period of interest (16th century) and taking that along the river and coast as I would my kayak..

so my inquiry: can anyone give me some leads on boat designs that would work for me? I have a knack for building things and feel confident that I could build a boat if I have the right information... I'm looking for something seaworthy for coastal travels, rowable by one or two people, and maybe a small sail to take advantage of wind when possible... a friend suggested a gloucester gull light dory, another friend suggested a wisp because it looks like a boat in Bruegel the Elder's "big fish eat little fish" which I showed him, and another friend told me this about boats I was thinking about:

"The Whisp is more like a Thames river skiff, which was a kind of water taxi used on the Thames
River since the mid 1500's up until the late 1800's. They're pretty fast, can handle two rowers, and can
be sailed, but they can be pretty tippy. It's designed for protected waters like rivers and streams rather
than open lakes and bays.

The Gloucester Light Dory is a small version of the cod fishing dories used up and down the east coast
since the mid 1700's. I suspect the original dory design comes from Portuguese fishing boats. The
Portuguese were fishing off of the Maine coast probably as early as the mid 1500's. It's another boat
that's really designed for protected waters. It doesn't have the weight to handle the kind of water that
real dories were designed for.

If you want something for two people that you can camp in, you're going to need a boat at least 16'
long and if you want to sail it also, that means some feature is going to have to be compromised. Boats
are funny in that you can design a great rowing boat, but it might not sail worth anything, or a great sailboat
that you can't row if your life depended on it. You can find designs that'll do both fairly well, but neither the
Gloucester light dory or the Whisp are it.

Plus if you're looking for something in a more period design, you'll need to do some research. Most of the
recent designs are loosely based on historical boats, but even then, historical means sometime within the
last 150 years or so. "

so I guess what I'm looking for are more insights on types of boats that would work for my intents

matthew

Cap'n Atli · Post by **Cap'n Atli** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:28 pm

I'll check the small craft section of our Chief Maritime Historian's office library.

Nice excuse to visit.

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:43 pm

I have a book with a pattern of a clinker built boat that would probably work. I'd have to get it out of storage.

Thomas Powers · Post by **Thomas Powers** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:22 pm

Hmm, any boats shown in De Re Metallica? German 16th century...

Thomas

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:28 pm

Clinkers 'might' ;-)

be period.
http://www.clinkerboat.com/about%20clinker%20boats.html

As I recall from my book, they are a handy way to make boats, and survive today. It wasn't broke so they didn't fix it.

Karen Larsdatter · Post by **Karen Larsdatter** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:28 pm

They're not exactly detailed pictures, but mebbe one of these will help you ...

http://www.wga.hu/art/c/carpacci/1ursula/2/71arriva.jpg
Detail from the Arrival of the Pilgrims in Cologne, in Carpaccio's Scenes from the Life of St. Ursula, 1490

http://www.wga.hu/html/d/durer/2/16/1/11house.html
House by a Pond by Albrecht Durer, c. 1496

http://racer.kb.nl/pregvn/MIMI/MIMI_MMW ... ANDV_B.JPG
Book of hours, c. 1500-1525 (The Hague, MMW, 10 F 14, Fol. 9r)

http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/work/mldacosta5a.jpg
Scene from the DaCosta Hours ("May") by Simon Bening, 1515

woodwose · Post by **woodwose** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:05 pm

I got a boat!! its not at all ideal for what I want to do, but at least its wood and open on the top, so it at least works better for this new interest than my sea kayaks would, and slightly more period looking shape than a canoe (reminds me of the one in Durer's "house by a pond"). I hope to start building something better this summer - but this thing, named the "Reject" because it was built with a little too much rocker and is too narrow for effective rowing, only cost me a small pile of war games that had been moldering in my closet for years

Here's a picture from the start of a two day trip to an SCA event:

[img]http://mailmaker.tripod.com/new/reject.jpg[/img]

Cap'n Atli · Post by **Cap'n Atli** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:27 pm

Looks like a nice boat.

I'm still waiting for our Maritime Historian to come back from travel, because this has got me currious too.

Cap'n Atli · Post by **Cap'n Atli** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:03 am

I will note that they have black anti-fouling paint these days, far less jarring than bright blue.

Do you even need anti-fouling paint? Do you keep it in the water over the week, or just take it out and haul it ashore when you're finished fro the day? If so, a quick scrub with a sponge should suffice.

Cap'n Atli · Post by **Cap'n Atli** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:22 am

Back to you, after some more research for the "Murdock Wants a Boat" thread.

In addition to my comments on later medieval faerings (and cogs) for Murdock, I finally spoke with Kevin Foster, our maritime historian. He suggested looking up publications by Fred Hocker, formerly of Texas A & M (and presently with the Vasa museum in Sweden) and Robert Neyland.

A quick Google search turned up a few links that may be useful:

http://medeltiden.kalmarlansmuseum.se/e ... l?userid=0

http://www.jmr.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/co ... kReview.81

http://www.hansekogge.de/

The quick note below sounds interesting, too:

Neyland, Robert, and Kathleen McLaughlin-Neyland
1994 "Preliminary Report on a Late Sixteenth-Century Boat Excavated in Friesland, the Netherlands." In Underwater Proceedings from the Society for Historical Archaeology Conference, Vancouver, British Columbia, 1994 edited by Robyn P. Woodward and Charles D. Moore, pp. 19-24. Published by the Society for Historical Archaeology.
In 1992, a 16th-century wreck was discovered near Workum, Friesland, during the digging of a drainage ditch. The wreck predates 1624, and the hull planks were cut between 1547 and 1553. The style of a child's shoe found on the wreck suggests a date of sinking in the second half of the 16th century. Evidence indicates that previous cargoes included hay and/or livestock, bricks, and peat. Artifacts include a mismatched pair of child's shoes, pieces of a ceramic skillet, two heather brushes, a twisted copper wire eyelet, and pieces of re-used leather.

from: http://www.nysl.nysed.gov/edocs/parks/dutchbib.htm

Hope this is some help to those of you with a nautical outlook.

T. Finkas · Post by **T. Finkas** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:24 am

Here's the dory I used to have. It was a Swampscott of approx 22' length. I sure miss it!

This is my wife and I out at the Renaissance Pleasure Faire in Devore, (Southern) California, circa 1992 or so.

Cheers,
Tim

Cap'n Atli · Post by **Cap'n Atli** » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:52 am

She's lovely; and the boat's nice too.