The Armour Archive

Oh my gosh!

My dad's collected guns for 20-25 years, and has a collection of somewhere around two dozen pieces currently, going back to 18th century England and coming up to a number of modern pieces oaying around. Some of his more interesting pieces dissappeared after his marriage began at my mother's request, but there is still enough excellent stuff to entice me to get interested at last!

So, while he and my brother sit around looking at Flayderman's catalog to buy more originals (by far a wiser investment, I realize) I'm searching for reproductions I can use. I found the ultimate site for such a thing!

http://www.therifleshoppe.com/Catalog.htm

They don't offer EVERYTHING, by all means, and are only willing to assemble a number of them for quite a pretty penny. But, with my dad's help I know I could put together a nice gun from their kits! So, what to get is my question?

These are my main choices, and the entire kit would cost several hundred dollars, depending on which I got. Then some hours of effort to get it together.

[img]http://www.therifleshoppe.com/623_Full_Stock_Web.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.therifleshoppe.com/623_Lock_Web.jpg[/img]

The above is a wheellock pistol, appropriate for the early 17th century. My main problem with this piece is that as a wheellock, it's noisy before it shoots, and it will also be less accurate than the rifles below. This will make it undesirable for hunting... I do find it the fairest to the eye, of these options, though. $405.

[img]http://www.therifleshoppe.com/856_Full_Stock_Web.jpg[/img]

Secondly, this is a matchlock rifle designed to be similar to those that Henry VIII ordered for his troops (4,000 of them) during the French campaign of 1544. $580.

And lastly...

[img]http://www.therifleshoppe.com/(527).2.gif[/img]

This is a caliver matchlock rifle, which I'm assuming is late 16th or early 17th century by the looks of it, although the site doesn't specify a clear date. $500.

The important thing is that as any of these choices will be a gun I will be able to use, I won't feel tempted to develop a historic kit to carry it around with in order to make it useful to me. I'll be able to enjoy shooting it while I'm with my family and relations (many who enjoy shooting). Of course, this doesn't mean that I won't be able to have a kit that it may go with...

What do people think? What kind would probably be the wisest investment for a first attempt, as well as one I can use often during the following years in target or hunting? I'm very anxious to get a fun and unique gun for shooting with my cousins, father and brother when the summer comes, so I wouldn't delay. Their backlog is 60-90 days...

Thanks for the opinions!

-Gerhard-

Well, except for neither of the long guns being a rifled piece AFAIK, I can see why you're finding it a difficult call to pick your first piece. The wheellock pistol will be likely the easiest to manage. Long lock time on firing as you've noted, but that's true of any non-percussion ignition system, to one degree or another. A shooter inexperienced with the vagaries of a flintlock can pull the muzzle completely off-target unless he learns to wait for the bang.

A matchlock is quite a handful to juggle, what with keeping the match lit and adjusted just right so the hot bit of the match gets in the flashpan and gets the priming powder lit and the powder train is continuous from pan to chamber... the type's virtue was that it was cheap. You could fight a war with the things. Wheellocks were more reliable about actually lighting the charge off -- their problem was crappy temper on the springs, which bent and broke with more regularity than the pieces went off! Matchlocks are also extremely demanding from the safety protocol aspect: burning fuse ends and loose black powder make an interesting combination. A fella can lose eyebrows, his hat, or his life. Matchlock armies had real problems with soldiers getting their powder out of the powder kegs while keeping their matches ready -- these were the earliest airborne troops. Really peeved the quartermaster sergeants, too.

DANG those rule!!!


I wants me a Handegonne!!!!!

The handegonnes are cool. I would love to see a handgonner portrayal.

http://www.handgonnes.com/

http://www.albionsmallarms.co.uk/home.htm

Albion used to have a very attractive 14th century handgonne. They don't have the photo up and they are backlogged big time, I guess.

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

Servus!

Dru Shoemaker does some great repro gonnes:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/meisterdru/guns.htm

Gerhard von Liebau wrote:like AK-47's with full-auto conversion kits laying around (they are not converted!)
-Gerhard-

Gregory,



Now for the Rifleshop, they have both a good and bad rep. I know guys who have literally waited up to 3 years to have orders completed by them. However I also know guys who get things within weeks from them.

You might consider contacting Loyalist Arms for earlier period firearms Gregory. They have a very good repl, and produce excellent pieces for the money.

Jehan if you want a handgonne barrel PM me and I will hook you up with one of the best barrel makers in the US. He is slow, but he is damn worth the wait.

Thanks for the feedback, Konstantine. Indeed, I knew they were smoothbore... Is calling them rifles inappropriate, in that case? I always like to classify my toys right, ya' know! (Even if I don't own them!)

The wheellock is likely to be my top choice, as the long guns will be more of a hassle, as you mentioned. I also went to bed thinking about it all, and figured that the wheellock will also be the most unique (I see lots of matchlocks at Renaissance Faires *Shudder*) So, that might just be settled.

Oh, another major factor: Price.

Also, the simple hand gonne may be on my list, as well... They're relatively inexpensive, plus they're damn cool! Once again, thank you Konstantine for the feedback, it helped. My dad knew some about both styles, but you touched light upon a couple of new challenges.

-Gerhard-

"This is my boom-stick!"

I used to own one of the .50 caliber hand-gonnes from Syke's. They might still sell them. Fantastic piece. I could have taken down a rhinocerous with that thing.

Greogry,

If you haven't already been in contact with Rittmeister Frye (Gordon Frye) here on AA, I recommend you adopt him as a mentor for the new direction you have chosen. Gordon is one of the best impressionists of this period that I know, a wealth of knowledge, and he is a solid cool dude to boot. Pray that he has some time and energy to give you advice because there may be few if any that are more uniquely qualified to do so!

Gordon has owned or shot all the appropriate 16th century repro's and will know where to get the best deal. A couple of guys in his old Ren Faire guild used to turn out some really outstanding repros of guns and such. The best was Dale Shinn, a splendid chap who made custom wheelocks and such. I could never afford to get him to make me one but he has a stellar reputation. A quick Google search lists the following contact info for Dale:

Dale Shinn,
PO Box 60554, Sacramento, California, 95821
(916) 488-4244, FAX (916) 488-8239,
E-mail: dgshinn---at---earthlink---dot---net

One of the most common wheelock repros is from a kit by Jeff Schroeter (Costa Mesa 1-714-645-9083) a guy who was in my Landsknecht/Reiters group in the latter half of the 1980's (we were inpired by Gordon's Landschnecht group). I don't know if he is still making them. Though I seem to remember that Gordon thinks poorly of Jeff's gun.

At any rate, Gordon will know more info on all this stuff.

Cheers,
Tim

My reading said that wheelocks were preferred for hunting as they were "faster" ignition than a flintlock.

I bought a repro wheelock back in the mid 1980's and no other gun has given me such an overwhelming urge to draw, point and say "Stand and Deliver"

Thomas

There's been a lot of talk about the Rifle Shop at the Muzzleloading Forum, as I remember. Those that have gotten the kits together have great pieces, but there's a lot involved.

Personally, I'd go for either the wheellock or the cavalier. Actually, I'd probably go for the wheellock, since I have a long gun barrel and am making a matchlock.

I have three, two "cannons on a stick" from Greywulf (who either is, or isn't, making them again, depending on when you ask) and one Burgundian with a serpentine from Sykes.

All three are jolly great fun!

Maeryk

Hello folks,

Thanks for the additional feedback. Tim, I plan on contacting Frye, but haven't taken the time to, yet. I'd like to point out that as Nick mentioned the difficulty involved in putting together these kits, that my dad does have experience building percussion pistol kits in the past, and he's very mechanical as it is (built a car ground-up at age 13, what would you expect?). I don't have any fear of not being able to get this kit appropriately assembled.

I believe I'm almost sure I'll go with the wheellock pistol. I've liked the gun's style for some time before I was even interested in obtaining a reproduction, so I find my attraction to it makes it quite an obvious choice.

Thanks again!

-Gerhard-

Greg - building a whelock from the ground up is *not* a project for someone who is not an advanced gunsmith - not if you want the thing to actually function.

Rifle shop parts are cast directly from original locks. Any castings are sand castings - they require lengthy and careful fileing and fitting. Any springs require hardening and tempering, as do any striking surfaces (in this case, the gear generating the sparks from the pyrate).

I repeat, this will be a torturously complex process, and if you make a mistake in the lock, you have a very expensive gun that is as useful as one of those cast zinc ones.

I can detail dissassemble and reassemble any of Col. Colts cap and ball revolvers in my sleep, put together a precussion lock, a flincher, or anything else you can imagine, but when I get a wheelock, I will be getting a custom model from Dale Shinn - and it will work.I would never consider putting together a Rifle Shop wheelock lock myself, unless I had an experienced gunsmith familiar with the task walking me through the process, step by step.

Chef, I can't speak for my dad and his reasoning, but he's spent most of his life building things. He's mechanical and confident enough in this project, as far as what I understand of his communicating to me about it. His knowledge of gun mechanisms made him seem like he'd be willing to try it. He's handled original wheellocks, and commented to me on their complexity without showing distress when I told him I'd like this model.

But, there probably are things he overlooked, as with some of the things you mentioned.

Heat treating springs, filing, etc, wouldn't be too much of a problem for him. His shop has more equipment in it than most local smithing shops and he's used to rebuilding small things, as well. But the time he'll have is now an issue, since you've brought that up. He works 60-80 hours a week, so I don't have lots of time to spare with him! He likes doing things right, so I'm sure he'd get this together eventually, but the complexity and unfamiliarity he has with the wheellocks (as he's never actually owned one) may make it take an unreasonable amount of time.

Perhaps the caliver would be a better choice, or even a later model, such as a flintlock? He owns a number of flintlocks from the 18th century, and I'm sure he'd be comfortable putting one of those together, beyond doubt.

Hmmmm...

-Gerhard-

Unless you have woodworking/metalworking / gunsmithing experience, you would be better off first buying a cheap kit gun and building that. The experience would be extremely valuable, and any mistakes would not be on your expensive dream-gun. Also. you would assemble the tool kit needed.

There a number of books available that will walk you through building a blackpowder gun, and some on assembling and tuning locks. These are EXTREMELY helpful, as guns, and especially gunlocks were one of the most complex mechanisms in daily use in period, as you will find out.

If your dad is the maker, and he is experienced, then the sky is the limit.

If you're confident in your dad's ability, go for the wheellock! I've seen some beautiful guns made from Rifle Shop kits, despite their difficulty.

And TRS isn't from the ground up. I mentioned I'm building a matchlock. Within the next couple years I'm going to try my hand at a wheellock done 100% from scratch, and I'm just a lowly blacksmith!

I want a gonne!

Best prices I've seen...

http://www.matuls.pl/english/english.html

Click on "Firearms", lefthand menu

Timothy, thank you for the VERY kind words! I am forever indebted to you, Sir!

Gerhard: I would urge some caution with the Rifle Shoppe products. As Chef said, they are cast from original parts, and require a great deal of work in getting them "just so", and do not come with instructions, or screws for that matter. Check out the various threads on wheellock making and Rifle Shoppe fiasco's on the Muzzleloading forum:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusio ... d/15/fp/1/

There's lots of good information, pro and con, about making wheellocks, and doing it from Rifle Shoppe kits. There's also a list of present-day makers of wheellocks, snaphaunces and matchlocks listed in the "Pre-flintlock" part of the forum. If you and your dad have lots of machine work experience, can handle hardening of steel, and have the patience of Job, then definitely go for it! It's a way to get yourself a wheellock without having to wait for a year or more and spend a pretty major chunk of change, that's for sure. But be prepaired for lots of work, and hope that the kit is indeed on hand from TRS when you order.

Also, do be aware that the wheellock pistol you posted the photo of at the top, from the TRS site, is of a 17th Century version rather than a 16th Century wheellock. Although the 16th Century French-style wheellocks had the deep belly of the later styles, they were a very different design of lock, and the butts were quite different, so be aware if you have a 16th Century personna. Fishtail butts were fairly uncommon in the 16th Century... so do LOTS of homework in digging through museum books, gun history books, you name it to see the evolution of the stock design, so you won't have to make the thing twice. Like I've done.

My recommendation to you for now though would be to start off with the matchlock kit from TRS. Making one isn't very hard (heck, I've made them from scratch; I mean, EVEN I can do that, LOL!) and IF you follow the Dutch Drill precisely, shooting a matchlock is quite safe. IF. Study it and do it, and you'll be fine. Anyway, matchlocks teach you a lot about the period shooting techniques, and helps you understand some of the why's and wherefore's of wheellocks before you get into them. Check Ulrich Bretscher's site on match manufacture:

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/history.html

If you and your family have already shot flintlocks, then moving backwards to wheellocks and matchlocks should be of no real challenge. But, if in your travels you run into Perry Louie at the Fresno (or any other) Renaissance Festival with his fellows firing matchlocks, do make contact with him, say hi and introduce yourself. He is well versed in matchlock drill, and can be of quite a bit of help to you.

Anyway, good luck with the project, and keep us informed. It's always good to have more shooters in this early period! Then you'll need a horse...

Allons!

Gordon

Jehan de Pelham wrote:The handegonnes are cool. I would love to see a handgonner portrayal.

http://www.handgonnes.com/

http://www.albionsmallarms.co.uk/home.htm

Albion used to have a very attractive 14th century handgonne. They don't have the photo up and they are backlogged big time, I guess.

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

I made a handgone to use as a mass weapon for sca.

Hello folks,

I talked more with my dad about TRS kits, and explained (as I read from their site and here) about the lack of instructions, pre-drilled holes, heat-treated springs, etc. He expressed worry at this, although admitted he could do it. He was discouraged, though. I'd rather not take a lot of his time, honestly...

I've actually found another site I found lots of fun 19th century stuff on, here... We already own the Philadelphia Derringer kit they supply (which I'm buying balls, wadding and caps for tonight).

http://www.possibleshop.com/

I think I may start with some percussion weapons, as I personally have no experience muzzleloading. My dad is the one who knows all of the stuff, and if I'm assuming correctly, he won't have LOTS of time to teach me! So, I should probably start simple.

After that, I'll move on to one of the hand gonnes from TRS. I'm also going to join the muzzleloading forum. (EDIT: Boy, that was a long process!)

Gordon,

thank you for the valuable information! I have indeed run into Perry and his crew at local faires, but did not get introduced to them by name. There is only one group around that does it, so I'll assume we're on the same page. I'll have to introduce myself to him this coming weekend in Visalia, as the Tulare County Renaissance Faire is on the 29th and 30th. By the way, I knew that wheellock was 17th century, and stated it in the first post I made.

Anyway, thanks again, folks!

-Gerhard-

Hello All,

Sorry for going to this thread so late... been busy writing a "How to use the 18th Century Scottish Baskethiled Broadsword ( for Dummies ) to go hand in hand with Thomas Page's Manual of 1746 for the class I teach.

Gregory... run screaming from TRS kits... they can take 3 or more years to fill your order. The kits are not for a beginner in any way. I would not try to build one and I can strip a Colt cap-n-ball, tune a flintlock and have been shooting black powder for 34 years now, both as a reenactor and a shooter.

Gordon knows his stuff and the guys to talk to in CA in the reenactment commuities.

Gordon and I have yet to meet in person but we have some amazing parallels in our lives. (I'm not sure if we were only 100 yard away from each other in March at the W4 in Seattle,WA... or 40 miles but we were damn close that weekend... Coming to my 18th Century Scottish Baskethiled Broadsword class this weekend Gordon???)

Wheellock look cool, but are a pain in the ass... match or flint is the way to go. (I shoot both) If you want to stay in the 15 century, HE has a nice 61 cal matchlock form the WotR that's quite nice. I own one. (I have something like 15 black powder weapons around the house at this time including a 3/4 scale mortar...

Most are flintlock.. with a few slow match weapons worked in.

Before you spend a dime on anything, find a black power club in your area and go to a match.

See what it's all about.... Ask questions, see how to load, shot, clean and maintain a black powder firearm.

That way, when to do buy something it will be nice, and something I'd want to buy from you when you tire of it in 90 days or so days...

Gerhard;

Sorry about not reading your preliminary post carefully enough, glad that you were aware that the kit is 17th Century. Anyway, do say hi to Perry and his crowd (he's the only Chinese guy out there with a matchlock, so he's fairly easy to spot at a Renaissance Faire). I'm certain that he can then introduce you to others around who can be of service to you as well. I'm pretty sure he'll be at the Visalia Faire, he often is.

I will agree with David too (Hi Dave! Yeah, weird parallels in our lives! Still working on getting over to see you for the Scottish Broadsword Class!) as to where to start. Flintlocks are a very good idea, and go way back. But something you may wish to consider too for a 17th Century pistol that is both affordable, available and quite functional is the so-called "doglock" (actually "English Lock") pistols available through Middlesex Village Trading Company, Loyalist Arms and Discriminating General. It's imported from India, but they are a good reproduction of the types of pistols available to Horse Troopers during the first half or the 17th Century. Here's a review I did on them for myArmoury, which also gives contact info for the vendors:

http://www.myarmoury.com/review_mvt_doglock.html

That ought to give you a few basics on the item without my having to repeat too much here. But suffice it to say that they're comparatively cheap and certainly available. I have several now, and used them to issue out to my Horse for the School of the Renaissance Soldier at the begining of the month. Not perfect, but a good starting point where the perfect is almost impossible to acquire at an affordable price or time span.


Anyway, food for thought. Keep us updated on things!

Allons!

Gordon

Don't have much to add, except that we dug out my dad's old musketloading equipment today, and I got to fire his reproduction Philadelphia Derringer. It was a .45, and he only had .32 and .50 rounds, so we stuffed it with three and then two .32's and an extra wad each time. Went off pretty well, although I didn't hit the target at 15 and then 10 yards because of the rather unexpected recoil both times. Bah...

But, that's my first live muzzleloading experience, and I'll tell you I don't want to quit now!

Oh, I've also decided to start with percussion cap guns, for my mother's sake. She was freaking out when I fired this, and went off about how they explode and crap. Well... I generally get around to doing what I like, but she has to learn to trust me doing it. So, in order to reduce the scare factor, the percussion caps will probably suffice for the time being!

-Gerhard-

Gerhard von Liebau wrote:Oh, I've also decided to start with percussion cap guns, for my mother's sake.

In review:buy something nice, and something I'd want to buy from you when you tire of it in 90 days or so days...

I only do percussion Colts... and I already have three.

Do you want to know what on my wish list?




Hahahaha.

Nipples only belong on a womans chest, not on a mans gun! Go with a flinter Gregory! Damn you guys Damn you all! Since I haev read this thread my blackpowder flu has returned. I have 5 or 6 BP rifles stuck in corners, or under beds. I am scrounging now to order a First model Brown Bess Irish contract model...........uugghhh I wish I had an attention span!

Primvs Pavlvs wrote: Damn you guys Damn you all! Since I haev read this thread my blackpowder flu has returned. I have 5 or 6 BP rifles stuck in corners, or under beds. I am scrounging now to order a First model Brown Bess Irish contract model...........uugghhh I wish I had an attention span!

OOOH! Dublin Castle First Model Bess! NICE! I suffered from that malady though for YEARS! Or should I say decades. WAY too many interests which tended to change every few years, morphing into something else that was similar, but needed an entirely new kit to do "right". Gack. Brown Besses, Charlevilles (couldn't get 1816 Muskets then to do Mexican War, after all), matchlocks, wheellocks, snaphaunces and other flinters, Halls, Sharps, cap and ball Colts, Single Action Colts, Springfields of various vints, good grief. At least I kept myself away from wooden boats, and managed only spend tons of money on horses, guns and uniforms instead. Thankfully, I SEEM to have settled into a period for a while that I can live with (again, 20 years later!) for a long, long time. But we'll see!

Good luck Gerhard! Don't let Mom's over-protectiveness keep you down, she ought to know that lads will ALWAYS find some way to blow things up. The smart ones who get Dad to help usually manage to keep their fingers, so cheer her up with that!

David, whatcha got in the line of Colts, LOL! (I know, getting a tad off-topic now...)

Gads... too much fun stuff out there!

Allons!

Gordon

Hello All,

My blackpowder flu has returned

Tell me about it... I HAD to have a doglock blunderbuss... HAD to. Really. I snuck it past my wife a few months ago, but have yet to figure out how to sneak it ti the range, and back home to clean it with out getting busted...
(I'm in the middle of making a slew of buck and ball loads for the range to check it out with.

Primvs Pavlvs...as a fellow reenactor with ADD may I ask for you to ping me before selling stuff on AA.. I'd bought about everything you'll ever listed up to date... think of me as your one stop shop (or in this case buy..). If I don't need it, you'd know with in a few hours (or less). Have fun with the Irish 1728 Model... I need a 1717 French (well, 3 or 4 to issue ) to my Jacobite mid-rankers up here.

Gordon, 51 Navy, 61 Navy, 62 pocket Police ( 73 5/12inch in 44/40, loaded with BP, 1866 Improved Henry 44/40 loaded with BP, Trapdoor carbine 45-70 loaded with repoduction of the US lighter Cav load... 63 sharps, 54 Paper cartridge... I took 2nd place at a cowboy action match with the Trapdoor a few years ago in a speed shooting match...hahahahaha. ) hey, do you get my manual? What do you think of it?

Cheers,

DT.

P.S. Gregory... get a 1717 French musket, that way I'll buy it from you in a few months when you change your mind... again...

David, I did get the Page Broadsword manuals you sent: How Cool! Makes Mr. Page quite comprehendable, so that the next time His Majesty's Forces meet up with your Rebels we shall have no difficulty in dealing with the rabble.

So, you Rat, did you get a Doglock Blunderbuss???? Oh, MAN, I REALLY want one! Oy, it's on the list, but only after a few other "necessaries" that I really ought to pay for first. But it's getting closer to the top all the time. I suppose I could sell off some useless modern stuff to finance it...

Oh, speaking of such things, a couple of years back I went to a Cowboy Action Shoot "Plainsman Match" (two caplock revolvers and a single-shot blackpowder cartridge rifle) packing my Dragoons and a '63 thee-band Sharps using paper cartridges. I was astounded that most of the other shooters were totally astonished at the piece, their ignorance overwhelming me. And they were the "Blackpowder" shooters, too! Gack. Not enough overlap into ACW reenacting, I guess. I was slow, but hit ALL the targets with that baby... (old Shiloh from Farmington, NY )

Gads.. We definitely need more cross-fertilization in these hobbies!

Allons!

Gordon

David, whatcha got in the line of Colts, LOL! (I know, getting a tad off-topic now...)

Well, I'm not David, but I have a cap and ball Colt Army (the Italian one with the ships engraved around it) and a Cimmaron SAA pinch-frame in .44 spl.

I love em.

(Working my way up to a CASS .44 kit. Looking at the Marlin Levers right now.. though everyone keeps trying to talk me into selling the Cimmaron and getting everything chambered in .357 instead)

Maeryk

Maeryk wrote:(Working my way up to a CASS .44 kit. Looking at the Marlin Levers right now.. though everyone keeps trying to talk me into selling the Cimmaron and getting everything chambered in .357 instead)

Maeryk

Vandals! Goths! .357????? Gads, what horrors of modern fantasy! Cast aside the advice of such "friends" as you would verminous clothing, and stick with real cartridges (.44 to .45) that shoot real propellants (blackpowder) like real men were meant to use. Marlins are okay, but if you can in any way afford it, go with a nice Uberti Winchester clone. Henry, '66 or '73, it matters not, they are all fine weapons in normal calibres (even if the originals weren't strictly chambered for same). Then when you go to the range with said "friends" you can abuse them with the glorious smell of burning sulfer, and convince them that the very touch of the smoke will cause their guns to instantly rust! Besides which, you will, like all here tend to stive for, have that "moral superiority" of using the "proper" arms for the course of fire.

Three-Fifty-Seven Magnum. Harrumph!

Cheers!

Gordon

In all fairness, the same guns in 38 Long Colt would be cool... or a brace of 51 Navys with a cartridge conversion to 38 L.C and a Historic Winchester clone would be "Kick Ass"!

In a side note, I thinking healing thoughts so you don't get sick(er) Gordon... I'd like to meet you and show you how Page works... and damn I'm sick of that manual... I only type 8-10 wpm ... Labor of love, man.

Labor of love....


Don't get well soon... get well NOW!

Oh, I be sure to take good care of the 1717 French musket Gregory... I'm making a spot in my gun safe for it...

Lol, David! You crack me up. The reason I sell so much isn't because I'm actually changing my mind, but just really like getting something new and never have the money for it! So, I trade off the old for the new, I suppose... Still like it all, though!

Anyway, point me to a place to pick up a 1717 French Musket, and I'll check it out. By the way, I think blunderbusses are pretty slick, too! My brother Andrew inherited my dad's, which is American made and dates from 1778. Slick gun! Would like to have one to fire, but I doubt it would be as useful as a musket.

Cheers!

-Gerhard-

(p.s. New options:)


Tennessee Rifle by Traditions


Kentucky Rifle by Traditions

[img]http://www.possibleshop.com/images11/tc-renegade.jpg[/img]
Thomson Center Renegade

I also plan on getting a few of these, so my friends can shoot with me. I'm always the one who ends up spending all of the money... *Grumble* Perfect timing for guns, though! Now I don't have to focus on a new suit of armour, which is always daunting!

Vandals! Goths! .357????? Gads, what horrors of modern fantasy! Cast aside the advice of such "friends" as you would verminous clothing, and stick with real cartridges (.44 to .45) that shoot real propellants (blackpowder) like real men were meant to use. Marlins are okay, but if you can in any way afford it, go with a nice Uberti Winchester clone. Henry, '66 or '73, it matters not, they are all fine weapons in normal calibres (even if the originals weren't strictly chambered for same). Then when you go to the range with said "friends" you can abuse them with the glorious smell of burning sulfer, and convince them that the very touch of the smoke will cause their guns to instantly rust! Besides which, you will, like all here tend to stive for, have that "moral superiority" of using the "proper" arms for the course of fire.

To be honest, the Marlins are just as correct as the Winchesters.. they both were/are production guns, then and now.

But the reason for the .357 over .44 spl is I can hit a shoot a weekend, in some cases _two_ shoots a weekend where I live, and do well over 1000 rds. a month in competition shooting.

And I can get about 2.5 boxes of .357 (or .38 cowboy) for what it will cost to get one box of .44 spl reloads.

Although, that Cimmaron is a NICE FREAKIN GUN! I love it. Dark wood grips, a nice four clicks, and smooth as silk.

Maeryk

Gerhard von Liebau wrote:Lol, David! You crack me up. The reason I sell so much isn't because I'm actually changing my mind, but just really like getting something new and never have the money for it! So, I trade off the old for the new, I suppose... Still like it all, though!

Anyway, point me to a place to pick up a 1717 French Musket, and I'll check it out.

Damn thats one sexy musket!


http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/NEWmuskets.shtml
Great People to work with... all muskets come with the bayonet, sling, hammerstall, and flashguard ( pretty crappy hammerstall, and flashguard... but they do the job)

Here is the direct link.

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/NEW1717.shtml

Both Gordon and I have had good dealings with this company.

Cheers,

DT