Irish soldier, 9th or 10th century [pics]

Saverio · Post by **Saverio** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:45 pm

I finally got around to taking some pictures of my (Viking age) Irish soldier's kit.
[img]http://saverio.mediumaevum.com/irishsoldier1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://saverio.mediumaevum.com/irishsoldier2.jpg[/img]

The inar is closed with a bronze pin (soon to be replaced with a bone pin) and a belt. The spear and shield can be documented, but the axe is a guess on my part. I think this portrayal would be a Fuidir, a semi-freeman in service of a lord.

Any thoughts? criticism?

Glen K · Post by **Glen K** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:47 pm

Any thoughts? criticism?

Yes, actually:

I'm sure a lot of people are getting tired of you completely blowing the "LH quality kit is too expensive" line of argument.

You always do a great job with your research and construction, and have been for the last several years. You're an inspiration to the enlightened!

Saverio · Post by **Saverio** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:28 pm

Thanks Glen, you were one of the people who showed me LH kits are within my reach.

Here's an estimate for this kit
Inar - $8
Trews - $12
Belt - $3
Pin - $5
Shoes - $10
Spear - $45
Shield - $35
Axe - $20
___________
$138

Most SCA fighter spend more on a helmet than I did on this whole kit

.

Glen K · Post by **Glen K** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:53 pm

Here's an estimate for this kit
Inar - $8
Trews - $12
Belt - $3
Pin - $5
Shoes - $10
Spear - $45
Shield - $35
Axe - $20
___________
$138

Wanna know what's REALLY cool? Without doing a 5000 word paper on it, I'd bet that the relative cost proportions between the individual pieces of that kit are pretty close to period proportions....

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:33 am

Cool Dan! I was looking at the specs on a kit like this 2 weeks ago just for fun.

Robert of Canterbury · Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:58 am

Very Fine.

Can you put them up on the IWTB Thread as well?
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=48035

Matthew Amt · Post by **Matthew Amt** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:13 am

Ah, Ireland--a country blissfully free of the ravages of evolution! Lengthen that wrap-tunic and ditch the trousers, and that's apparently what they were wearing in the Bronze Age! Spear, axe, and round shield as well, just different metals. The simple pleasures are the best, eh?

Great stuff as always!

Matthew

Saverio · Post by **Saverio** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:29 am

Thanks guys, I'd like to see the end of Iron Age clothing on a medieval Irishman. There is so much bad information on Irish clothing floating around the net.

James, one word--Clontarf.

Glen, I bet you're right. The only thing that might be wrong is the bronze pin, but a bone pin would probably be about there.

Ned Chaney · Post by **Ned Chaney** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:12 pm

Interesting. I've been reading "Princes of Ireland" and the section I just finished was exactly this time period. Cool to see how those guys I was picturing as I read actually looked. BTW......given the Norse influence in Ireland at this time that axe is probably right on target. In fact the book mentions how axes were becoming all the rage as weapons because of the Norse influence.

Wolf · Post by **Wolf** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:35 pm

ggggggggggaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

hehehe jk

you know dan, u really need to put this all on a web page with discriptions of each article of clothing and a how to make it page. i think this would really help others in more ways than u know

Malachiuri · Post by **Malachiuri** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:39 pm

Wait a second... you are wearing shoes.

My English granny told the the Irish just discovered shoes in 1973.

Whats up with that?

Saverio · Post by **Saverio** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:51 pm

This summer I'll make kit guides for Viking era Irish soldier and nobles. That seems to be the period of interest in Ireland (besides 16th century).

BaronMal, even though later period of Irish history have us running around barefoot this period was big on shoes. Even the ascetic monks wore simple shoes. However, the two soldiers in the Book of Kells are barefoot
[img]http://www.pictavia.org/A&S/weapons/media/warrior.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.pictavia.org/A&S/weapons/media/warrior2.jpg[/img]
(BTW, these images are from Pictavia.org as examples of Pictish soldiers, even though they're from an Irish manuscript

)

Dalloch · Post by **Dalloch** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:31 am

Why dosent that suprise me? There may be some bad info about the Irish around on the net, but its nothing compared to the dross you find on the Picts!

Great kit!

earnest carruthers · Post by **earnest carruthers** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 am

Nice kit.

Nice price. No mortgage to buy it.

nathan · Post by **nathan** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:15 am

Do you have any construction details for the trews you might be able to share?

Saverio · Post by **Saverio** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:39 am

Hey Nathan, I started with a pattern like the one found here
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/coldcloth.html
They started somewhat baggy. I put them on inside out, grabbed the excess, pinned it, removed the trews, sewed a new seam, and cut off the excess. They are now fitted to me and me alone

.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:25 am

CAPRI PANTS!!!!

Niall MÃƒÂ³r · Post by **Niall MÃƒÂ³r** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:35 pm

Saverio -

Firstly, the amount of care and research you put into your kits are awe-inspiring.

Secondly, you used a pattern from a Roman site for your pants. Are these just a similar look? Or are they actually descended from the Roman style? To my knowledge, the Romans never touched Ireland even through trade.

Saverio · Post by **Saverio** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:08 pm

Actually Niall, there is quite a bit of evidence that the Romans traded with the Irish http://www.britarch.ac.uk/BA/ba14/ba14feat.html
A lot of culture in Late Iron Age/Early Christian period Ireland derived from Roman Britain (penannular brooches, the leine).
The Romans borrowed their femenalia (short trews) from the Gauls. So they could have derived from the same source. Regardless, the pattern works

.

Matthew Amt · Post by **Matthew Amt** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:10 am

Don't worry, that's just my generic "M1 Pants Pattern", which I've used for anything that there is no better evidence for. It's not specifically Roman or anything else, but it can be adjusted to match the look of trousers from a number of different times and places. (It's not as good for medieval braies, though, because it doesn't get that "diaper" look.) If you don't happen to have a handy bog find to copy a real pattern from, something like this will probably work. Seems to have in this case!

Matthew

Niall MÃƒÂ³r · Post by **Niall MÃƒÂ³r** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:39 pm

Thanks for setting me straight on that. This article is actually very interesting. I'll have to bring it to my Celtic Studies Advisor at college and see what she thinks of it.