The Armour Archive

Often times when deciding what to interpret we are faced with the choice between what is popular/neat/want to do or to choose that which could be most fully or best accomplished with your individual or groups skills.

For example you decide to portray 1520. The popular thing to do would be German Landsknecht but lets face it most Americans aren't very fluent in German and there is only limited information in English. Doing England would be much more practical, not only is most of the secondary literature in English but much of the primary evidence is as also readable by most Americans.

When faced with these sorts of things, which have you chosen and why or would you go back and change your decision or any other commentary.

When we first started doing the 1460s and 1470s, everyone was doing English Wars of the Roses. We started as a Yorkist group and quickly decided to shift gears and chose instead to do Burgundians because life existed outside of England. 1), there was material available to English speakers, 2) the Burgundian army was multi-national, 3) life on the continent tended to be more liberal where women were concerned and this opened up choices for female participants in our group. Our group has a mix of skills ranging from research and language skills to crafts to weapons proficiencies.

What to do about language? Speaking a variant of Medieval French, English, German, Italian, etc... might be done by some groups, but none that I know of, if they do, more power to them. It's been my experience that they tend to speak modern variants of their native language.

What to do about reading medieval documents or documents in a foreign language? Learn the language in question or ask for help from someone who knows.

Would we change our chosen time period...no, and we think we're accomplishing our goals pretty well.

Choosing a rare and poorly documented persona is harder and takes more research, but at least nobody will know enough to pick on you for doing things wrong. Really, though, strange personas attract attention and help you stand out. We GeneriNorse and such are so common that nobody pays us much attention.

The funny thing is just how little information there really is on some popular SCA cultures, which leads to people all dressing the same way for that culture as they all walk around wearing the burial garb and jewelry of a dead king, because that's one of the only clear finds.

Desire. For me it comes down to desire. My desire to learn about a certain subject. It just so happens that you picked MY chosen persona, Landsknecht of 1510-20. My choice stems from me being fascinated by the german Landsknecht way be in college when I first heard about them. It may be harder to accomplish, but not impossible. And I will know how much I put into this persona when I am done. It will mean that much more to me.

I went with what was easiest. Because I am lazy.



John
Jehan de Pelham, ecuyer and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

First I went with what made me look teh hawtest. Then I switched to what Jeff had armour for that made him look teh hawtest.

Sometimes I wish we did American Colonial, just because that’s what’s HERE. But when I started, I lived in Minnesota, and that wouldn’t have really existed there either. I like the challenge of having to do a lot of the research myself, instead of relying on buying everything from sutlers (which is what folks in American Colonial tend to do more than we do).

"First I went with what made me look teh hawtest."

Getting with the laydes was my main goal, too. It worked, and now I am wedded to a hawt 14th C Baebe. Highly recommended if you have the means.

John
Jehan de Pelham, ecuyer and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

No one is forcing you to study European History and historically related subjects.

Concerning language there are 2 distinct problems. First, medieval documents were rarely written in any modern language. In fact, some of the languages use, like Latin, were used incorrectly. Also, understand that the documents were written, not printed. Reading a medieval document is often a matter of figuring out just what that letter in that word in that "sentence" means. This entire process of reading is to a large extent the core skill(s) of many scholars. If you want to study Old High German, then you have to learn modern German first.

Second, many of the comments on the documents or other sources, are written in the author's native tongue. The sun may have never set on the British Empire, but nationalism is still alive and thriving. Things aren't likely to change.

Mord.

Peder wrote:Often times when deciding what to interpret we are faced with the choice between what is popular/neat/want to do or to choose that which could be most fully or best accomplished with your individual or groups skills.

For example you decide to portray 1520. The popular thing to do would be German Landsknecht but lets face it most Americans aren't very fluent in German and there is only limited information in English. Doing England would be much more practical, not only is most of the secondary literature in English but much of the primary evidence is as also readable by most Americans.

When faced with these sorts of things, which have you chosen and why or would you go back and change your decision or any other commentary.

I do not think that there is a popular vs Best requirement.
Each person’s choice of persona can be founded on different reasons. You imply that all who do a persona will be researchers, or rather that they should be.

Why are different looks popular for different periods of time? First, because the people look good doing their thing in those outfits. They are a natural advertisement. Second there is something distinctive about that group. I look at the 14th cent people and I could not tell you the differences between the different regions they represent. I don’t know if all of the people in those kits could. I’m sure some can and some have found it easier to make their outfits match existing field examples. Also their exclusive tournaments help codify the look.

For myself I chose a Germanic Landsknecht persona based on the fact I am half German and I like look of the Landsknecht. I cannot read or speak German however. Yes I have to work harder to find my sources, but I do work for it. As I work on moving my hard kit to better representation of a landsknecht I have found that I had to hunt up custom cross hilts and pommels, custom shoes and a custom helm.

I expect that many will benefit from my work and from those of Insane Irish. So they will find it easier to duplicate the look. That will of course help make the look popular.

My point is that popular does not have to be wrong. But popular may be easier to copy. The problem is of course popular does not mean the copiers will do it right. In preparation for my knight’s coronation I was gifted instruction on the patterns needed for the outfits. This helped greatly in not getting it wrong.
(we can argue “rightâ€

If you need to translate some info that's in German or another language you can't speak, you can copy it and paste it into BableFish. Or, if you run into a situation like I did (website written in Russian that I had no hope of navigating on my own), maybe try asking around for someone who speaks the language.

Cat

Charlotte J wrote:First I went with what made me look teh hawtest.

Jehan de Pelham wrote:It worked, and now I am wedded to a hawt 14th C Baebe.

I blame Tim Newark and Angus McBride. Before I joined the SCA, I picked up a book called Celtic Warriors, a broad overview of Celtic military history (I know, I know, but I was 22 ok) On the cover is a gallowglas in maille and bascinet with a nice two handed sword. From that day on, I've really wanted to be that guy. I bounce around personna and times in terms of clothes quite abit, but armour wise, that's the guy.

I chose mine (Principality of Nitra) because is was a region that I have not really seen portrayed, and I would like to see more variety out there. Also, it is where my mother's family is from, and I fell in love with the area when my wife and I went out to visit family. I went for late 9th/ early 10th Century because that was a time of great change in the region. There isn't much written in English, and my kit does lean towards the generic, but I'm working on it.

I'm still early in my research, but am having fun with it. I will also probably narrow down the date/time as I learn more. I hope that one day I can have enough info to help someone else out interested in the region.

I would also like to add a later period kit portraying something from the same region, but want to keep developing this one as well.

Mord wrote:
...First, medieval documents were rarely written in any modern language. In fact, some of the languages use, like Latin, were used incorrectly.

Or it was a mishmash of multiple languages, including improperly used Latin.

Second, many of the comments on the documents or other sources, are written in the author's native tongue. ...
Mord.

Of this, I am painfully aware of... medieval Limosin anyone? How about Picard?

I used to be Talbot Mac Taggart but changes to William Talbot because i wanted to do a more authentic job of creating an accurate kit. By changing to English the job was much more likely. It was also an response to the seeming disproportionate representation of peoples of Celtic descent compared those of Anglo Saxon descent in the SCA

. . .the seeming disproportionate representation of peoples of Celtic descent compared those of Anglo Saxon descent in the SCA.

Too true, isn't it? About the only thing funnier in SCA society than Highlanders-by-the-ton is the six-foot-three freckled redheaded samurai. All we need to round out the collection is space aliens assuming human personae. Don't get me wrong -- I think it's all part of the fun.

I dont do any perticular persona because I love all of it.

If I were pressed, Id want to do something Danish or Eastern European stuff. Hunyadi, Hussites, etc...

Early 14th century Brittany. I spent almost a month in Brittany on an exchange during high school, and fell in love with the area. I chose the early 14th century for a variety of reasons - the interesting political situation in Brittany, the relative simplicity of armour, coinage, and dress, and partially because it's so under-represented in the SCA.

Finding sources is tricky, but doable.

-Donasian.

I do what's popular to me. That happens to be 9-10th Century Norse Viking, and I guess pretty popular to others too, depending on where you are.

The "why" I chose it had nothing to do with what others thought, just my own interests. I have had a long and deep fascination with history since I was old enough to read, but Vikings have always held a special place for me. Perhaps because it is ancestry (I have grandparents from the "old countries" of Sweden, Denmark and Norway).

Also of note, is I have very little interest in the so-called high Middle Ages on the whole from that high point of 1100ish on. I am much more interested in the post Roman, pre Norman-conquest era. Not sure why, its just where my mind wanders. If I couldn't do Viking, I would lean towards the early Anglo-Saxon probably...or Vendel...or perhaps even late Roman.